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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    Well, Olympus is one and a half feet out the door. So, Panasonic is the only known brand left standing (there's Yongnuo that made a cheapo cam that got blasted and Sharp which announced an 8K cam but has been sitting on it without much noise). So, it's kind of half a dozen tomaytoes deal.
    Heh, shows your lack of knowledge of MFT with how many other camera brands you left out who have made MFT bodies.
    Am a Sound Recordist in New Zealand: http://ironfilm.co.nz/sound/
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    If you can afford an EOS R5, sure, the four-year-old GH5 might not be especially attractive.

    (Which doesn’t actually say all that much about the forthcoming GH6. Video tech has changed a lot in the last four years, and the current extraordinary obsession with full-frame may give Panasonic plenty of room to throw features at the GH6 without killing sales of its high-end cameras. That could lead to an incredibly potent GH6 for those who see through the full-frame hype. Heck, even the GH5 has loads of features the just-released R5 lacks.)

    But that doesn’t apply to almost everyone who buys these cameras. They buy them precisely because they cost one-third of an EOS R5 or α7S III.

    Remember, camera companies agonise about $50 pricing intervals, because even $50 affects who buys their camera.


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    I am willing to pay up to the R5 price point for the right feature set. To me, it is all about the features and image quality up to the price I am willing to pay. More than likely the GH6 will cost $2,500 upon release. Given the track record of GH releases, the GH6 will probably be a large improvement over the previous model as well. It will have 4k60 10bit. Beyond that, I have no clue about anything else. But since my current needs and workload are being met by the GH5, I am waiting a while to give the GH6 a chance before going for an R5 or a7SIII. This also gives some time for firmware improvements on both of these cameras as well. (overheating & C-LOG3 on the Canon, maybe shutter angles on the a7SIII?)

    In short, I enjoy using the GH5. It lacks clean ISO performance and C-AF performance. I do not desire to move away from the system, so if they can improve their product, it will be a buy. But I can't ignore how awesome the two FF choices are, so they better get on their horses so to speak.
    Last edited by Bassman2003; 11-18-2020 at 06:47 AM.


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    I never felt there was a compelling need or reason for M43 especially for video. Both APS-c and Super 35 were available and established alternatives to FF, but for some reason Panasonic had to be different. They had a good run but now they're going to have to pay the price.


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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
    Heh, shows your lack of knowledge of MFT with how many other camera brands you left out who have made MFT bodies.
    I know. No one's even heard of Yongnou MFT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassman2003 View Post
    I am willing to pay up to the R5 price point for the right feature set. To me, it is all about the features and image quality up to the price I am willing to pay. More than likely the GH6 will cost $2,500 upon release ...
    The Panasonic management said they'll do it. The 41 MPX Sony MFT sensor has been out for over a year. So, those are positive factors.

    But ... camera sales are tanking with or without Covid. Panasonic already have several mid-to-high video (and one photo) centric models in the same price bracket and higher. The longer this wait for the GH-6 goes on, the less likely it'll be a similar niche camera as GH-3/4/5 because that niche no longer exists and because a lot of the GH-4/5/5s shooters have moved onto R6 and A7SIII.

    PS. For many, Sony's absence of the internal 10-bit is what stops them from buying either the APS-C or a lower priced FF for video work. But, at some point, there will be a 10-bit codec and the E-mount glass will give you access to a lot of bodies, from the entry tier APS-C to FX-9. And it appears to be a much more solid path to an ecosystem.

    PPS. Given Panasonic poor AF, Pocket4K has an advantage of the internal Raw and a very affordable price. And, if R5/R6 are any indications, the 2021 should bring a leap in hardware quality and the related value. The high end is trending to 8K, which pretty much requires a full frame. In which case, GH-5/6 is a look back and R5 is a look forward.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bassman2003 View Post
    In short, I enjoy using the GH5. It lacks clean ISO performance and C-AF performance.
    The GH5S at least fixed the first of those problems with a sensor optimised for video use.

    I’d guess Panasonic will eventually move to phase-detect autofocus, although I’d prefer they didn’t because I don’t like the artefacts in the image that often arise from the special pixels.

    Obviously autofocus and full-frame are the two major sales vectors right now. Sometimes more important features get lost in the hype about those things.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bassman2003 View Post
    This also gives some time for firmware improvements on both of these cameras as well. (overheating & C-LOG3 on the Canon, maybe shutter angles on the a7SIII?)
    Very difficult to fix the overheating. The problem is that Canon insists on using an antiquated fab (that would otherwise be entirely worthless) to make its own processors, which are therefore inefficient. What do they do to alleviate that? Pack in 8Kís worth of pixels before anyone else does. The result will win them sales, but itís not a sensible camera for video use, certainly for event coverage where people canít wait around for the camera to catch its breath.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Dilworth View Post
    Very difficult to fix the overheating. The problem is that Canon insists on using an antiquated fab (that would otherwise be entirely worthless) to make its own processors, which are therefore inefficient. What do they do to alleviate that? Pack in 8Kís worth of pixels before anyone else does. The result will win them sales, but itís not a sensible camera for video use, certainly for event coverage where people canít wait around for the camera to catch its breath.
    There's no doubt overheating is an issue in electronics, but the R5 can record much longer than what it's capable of in its default state from the factory.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    The 41 MPX Sony MFT sensor has been out for over a year. So, those are positive factors.
    If thatís the sensor I think it is, itís entirely useless for a video camera because the readout rate is far too slow.

    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    PS. For many, Sony's absence of the internal 10-bit is what stops them from buying either the APS-C or a lower priced FF for video work.
    Sonyís 8-bit would be okay if you could turn off the massive noise-reduction. Itís the glossy smooth gradients in combination with 8-bit that create banding problems. The natural noise of the pixels would otherwise be effective dithering even at 8-bit depth. Of course Sony carefully engineered this situation to be just so.

    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    The high end is trending to 8K, which pretty much requires a full frame.
    Not so. Itís trivial to put as many pixels as you like on a Four Thirds sensor. Look to smartphones if you doubt that. 8K will arrive to Micro Four Thirds if the format persists. For the time being, itís difficult to read out all of those pixels quickly enough and downscale them to a smaller pixel count when that is needed Ö without creating heat and battery-life problems as in the R5.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C. View Post
    I never felt there was a compelling need or reason for M43 especially for video. Both APS-c and Super 35 were available and established alternatives to FF, but for some reason Panasonic had to be different. They had a good run but now they're going to have to pay the price.
    A Four Thirds sensor is at least a couple of hundred dollars cheaper than a full-frame one. That becomes compelling when the total price of the camera is low. At $2500, this benefit is worth less (but not worthless).

    Therefore, I think Panasonic needs to ease down the price of the GH-series cameras. I suspect that will start happening already with the GH6, which might be less innovative than previous cameras were, releative to the rest of the market. But cheaper. Fine by me.

    The other major benefit of Micro Four Thirds is the wide range of smaller and cheaper lenses available. There remains a market for cheaper cameras as long as they’re not dumbed down for people who would prefer to point and shoot. That worked in the past. Nowadays, people who still buy standalone cameras want to be involved in the process. So cheap cameras today must still be enthusiast-focused, just less full-featured, bleeding-edge in tech, and solidly built than high-end cameras.

    The mistake is to assume there’s no market for cheap cameras just because the old approach of aiming cheap cameras at non-photographers no longer works.


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