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    #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy_Dem View Post
    Agreed. The new AF on the Canon R5 and Sony A7SIII have made me a believer and it now gives me pause when considering any camera that is not on that level as I am a solo shooter.
    AF is hand in hand with 4+K

    I was testing some lenses last week at 6k and the sharpness was defo driven by if the shot was in focus or not - which was hard to get. Im mean it had to be 1/-1 an inch to be sharp or not.


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    I own a RED Stormtrooper Komodo and Gemini. I thought I would provide some info to best answer some of your questions, concerns, and speculation and try and give some insight into what the camera is and isn't. Just so everyone is aware frame rates have improved throughout BETA and Komodo does 6K/ 48fps and 6k WS/ 50 fps which I don't even think is fully advertised on the RED website yet. There are also other features like Anamorphic shooting (2x, 1.8, 1.6), time-lapse, photo mode and hopefully a slew off other software updates that are coming as well by the time this camera is dropped for main-stream production. In regards to flex from the RF mount from my experience this is a non issue. I use Leica-R glass that is cine-modded with Nucleus-M focus motors at high torque and there is zero movement from the mount. I would only be concerned with Anamorphic's or long cine zooms but they usually come in PL mount and the PL mount adapters available for RF/PL on the market all have ways to be bolted and integrated into the body, side plates/cages or a baseplate for support so again a non-issue. Kippertie also makes an RF/PL and RF/EF Revolva adaptor with ND's built in which is about as rock solid as my titanium locking PL mount for my Gemini so there are a lot of options out there and the benefit of the adaptor is that you have built in ND options available now for RED cameras. There are bugs in beta but that is to be expected. I have experienced none through all available firmware upgrades but I have seen posts on the Facebook group of others having more significant issues or glitches but I can say RED has been there for support through all of it from what I have seen. I assume once this camera is for sale at mainstream production this will be a non-issue. I mean, I haven't forget about the overheating issue from the R5 and how canon has pushed back the release and really kind of danced around a lot of problems and in my opinion really dropped the ball on some very reliable Canon fanboys and customers who were ready to buy that camera. If any other company would have let you buy a C70, R5, A7Siii ahead of time as a BETA tester, there would have been bugs too and many would have jumped on that band wagon and would have made it out to be the greatest experience since sliced bread so I think there's a little irony in critiquing the RED beta program because we all know if Sony or Canon offered one to non-brand ambassador's everyone would have applauded but that is an argument for another day.

    What I can tell you guys about Komodo is this..... It is very much a real deal RED that is much smaller (almost like a toy) and it cuts well with all other cameras in their line-up. For being so small it is very robust (entirely metal) and built very well but definitely the form factor is more annoying to rig compared to DSMC2 (i.e. Gemini, Helium, etc.) with a lack of mounting points and accessory ports (i.e. ctrl, sync, timecode). Komodo fits on a gimbal like a dream but when building up the rig with follow focus, timecode, wireless video transmission etc. it does somewhat overwhelm the form factor and require ways to find additional mounts points for accessories and break-out boxes on the camera where as the larger RED DSMC2 cameras feel easier to build up and less "frankenstined" for those of you who really like clean builds. If you keep the build small for run-and-gun on smaller gimbals or simply with less production equipment rigged onto it the Komodo is really great though, which is primarily how I am using it on a Letus Helix gimbal with follow focus grips as a single-op or we use the built-in wireless video transmission instead of a Teradek unit. The RED Control app has almost no latency and really is almost at a level where I would be satisfied relying on it instead of a dedicated wireless video transmitter unit and I think with DSMC3 and other future cameras we may see professional grade video transmission from bluetooth/wifi becoming a standard in the future for both monitors and cameras.

    For run-and gun, travel, adventure, sports, or tiny gimbal and rigging setups (i.e. car mounts) there is no other RED camera that compares to Komodo as it really is insanely tiny which makes a lot of things way easier especially for people who don't always have large crews or help on set or people who shoot in remote locations. The image is on par with Dragon and Helium but so far I still like Gemini / Monstro better. Any footage you see of Komodo that is sub-par is due to the cinematography, post-production, or various factors in production and not the camera (user, lighting, lens, post-production). A lot of Youtube footage is just exactly that....I can show you side-by sides of Komodo vs. Monstro vs. Gemini vs. Alexa and they are all very similar in controlled environments. How you grade the RAW image utilizing the various contrast and highlight roll-off options can drastically affect whether this camera looks digital or filmic. Overall I’d give Komodo one stop less dynamic range than Gemini with Gemini at (14) usable "Real" stops which is on par with Alexa and Komodo at about (13 stops). Gemini just feels like a slightly thicker digital negative and is a little more softer on talent due to (5k vs 6k resolution) and the beautiful character of the sensors micro-contrast and highlight roll off. Global shutter is absolutely the future though and I expect that to be the primary sensor design going forward with their production. The global shutter has a different motion cadence than the other RED sensors which I have come to like and there is obviously all the benefits when it comes to capturing motion such as fast moving objects or for whip-pans. From my experience also owning Gemini, there is very low noise for no Dual-ISO mode, which impressed me. I do make sure to expose properly and black-shade and I have seen some people claiming issues with noise but that absolutely has not been my experience. I get very clean blacks and find the image usable up to 3200 ISO and the noise you do get when pushing the image is finer like grain which is interesting which I’m guessing is a signature of the global shutter. Skin-tones are much improved over some of the other RED cameras and I would say on par with Gemini / Monstro. Color science is really nice and neutral (no need to change your tint out of the gate) like some other reds (i.e Helium). RED seems to have done a nice job on the Komodo OLPF which is not swappable but reminiscent of the DSMC2 STHL (Skin Tone Highlight) OLPF. Battery life is excellent and there are a lot of V-Mount and Gold Mount adaptors out or coming out as well.

    Overall I would rate the RED cameras as follows in terms of IQ ..... Monstro, Gemini, Dragon, Komodo, Helium in my preference. In terms of rating the cameras considering a ratio of IQ/Price-Point I would say Gemini, Komodo, Dragon, Helium, Monstro. For the price there is no cheaper entry into a cinema camera that shoots 16-bit RAW in this form factor with such high dynamic range and a global shutter. For now Komodo lives on my gimbal until I decide to take it up a mountain or on an adventure where I would have left my Gemini at home. I also use Komodo as my location scouting camera now and build it out in an extremely tiny form factor reminiscent of a Mamiya which has been a total treat and something I have never experienced from any larger cinema camera to have it so accessibly tiny and easy to take a long with you anywhere. This is why I got Komodo to be the best B-cam for someone who is already invested in the RED ecosystem but at $6000 for the brain and a built package coming in at about $10,000 and considering it is "as good or better" at some things than its bigger brothers, it really is great value. Whether you love or hate RED the camera is legit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grug View Post
    Komodo, with the right batch of accessories (and you need a lot of accessories), seems really appealing to me.

    Having to crop into 5k for 48fps is a little annoying, but other than that, it's mainly just the single video output that really gives me pause (along with flex from the RF mount, and all the various little bugs that have popped up in the beta test program), but at that price. Carrying a pair of them at all times isn't all that unfeasible.
    Last edited by sleekmedia; 10-14-2020 at 09:29 AM.


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    #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleekmedia View Post
    I own a RED Stormtrooper Komodo and Gemini. I thought I would provide some info to best answer some of your questions, concerns, and speculation and try and give some insight into what the camera is and isn't. Just so everyone is aware frame rates have improved throughout BETA and Komodo does 6K/ 48fps and 6k WS/ 50 fps which I don't even think is fully advertised on the RED website yet. There are also other features like Anamorphic shooting (2x, 1.8, 1.6), time-lapse, photo mode and hopefully a slew off other software updates that are coming as well by the time this camera is dropped for main-stream production. In regards to flex from the RF mount from my experience this is a non issue. I use Leica-R glass that is cine-modded with Nucleus-M focus motors at high torque and there is zero movement from the mount. I would only be concerned with Anamorphic's or long cine zooms but they usually come in PL mount and the PL mount adapters available for RF/PL on the market all have ways to be bolted and integrated into the body, side plates/cages or a baseplate for support so again a non-issue. Kippertie also makes an RF/PL and RF/EF Revolva adaptor with ND's built in which is about as rock solid as my titanium locking PL mount for my Gemini so there are a lot of options out there and the benefit of the adaptor is that you have built in ND options available now for RED cameras. There are bugs in beta but that is to be expected. I have experienced none through all available firmware upgrades but I have seen posts on the Facebook group of others having more significant issues or glitches but I can say RED has been there for support through all of it from what I have seen. I assume once this camera is for sale at mainstream production this will be a non-issue. I mean, I haven't forget about the overheating issue from the R5 and how canon has pushed back the release and really kind of danced around a lot of problems and in my opinion really dropped the ball on some very reliable Canon fanboys and customers who were ready to buy that camera. If any other company would have let you buy a C70, R5, A7Siii ahead of time as a BETA tester, there would have been bugs too and many would have jumped on that band wagon and would have made it out to be the greatest experience since sliced bread so I think there's a little irony in critiquing the RED beta program because we all know if Sony or Canon offered one to non-brand ambassador's everyone would have applauded but that is an argument for another day.

    What I can tell you guys about Komodo is this..... It is very much a real deal RED that is much smaller (almost like a toy) and it cuts well with all other cameras in their line-up. For being so small it is very robust (entirely metal) and built very well but definitely the form factor is more annoying to rig compared to DSMC2 (i.e. Gemini, Helium, etc.) with a lack of mounting points and accessory ports (i.e. ctrl, sync, timecode). Komodo fits on a gimbal like a dream but when building up the rig with follow focus, timecode, wireless video transmission etc. it does somewhat overwhelm the form factor and require ways to find additional mounts points for accessories and break-out boxes on the camera where as the larger RED DSMC2 cameras feel easier to build up and less "frankenstined" for those of you who really like clean builds. If you keep the build small for run-and-gun on smaller gimbals or simply with less production equipment rigged onto it the Komodo is really great though, which is primarily how I am using it on a Letus Helix gimbal with follow focus grips as a single-op or we use the built-in wireless video transmission instead of a Teradek unit. The RED Control app has almost no latency and really is almost at a level where I would be satisfied relying on it instead of a dedicated wireless video transmitter unit and I think with DSMC3 and other future cameras we may see professional grade video transmission from bluetooth/wifi becoming a standard in the future for both monitors and cameras.

    For run-and gun, travel, adventure, sports, or tiny gimbal and rigging setups (i.e. car mounts) there is no other RED camera that compares to Komodo as it really is insanely tiny which makes a lot of things way easier especially for people who don't always have large crews or help on set or people who shoot in remote locations. The image is on par with Dragon and Helium but so far I still like Gemini / Monstro better. Any footage you see of Komodo that is sup-bar is due to the cinematography, post-production, or various factors in production and not the camera (user, lighting, lens, post-production). A lot of Youtube footage is just exactly that....I can show you side-by sides of Komodo vs. Monstro vs. Gemini vs. Alexa and they are all very similar in controlled environments. How you grade the RAW image utilizing the various contrast and highlight roll-off options can drastically affect whether this camera looks digital or filmic. Overall I’d give Komodo one stop less dynamic range than Gemini with Gemini at (14) usable "Real" stops which is on par with Alexa and Komodo at about (13 stops). Gemini just feels like a slightly thicker digital negative and is a little more softer on talent due to (5k vs 6k resolution) and the beautiful character of the sensors micro-contrast and highlight roll off. Global shutter is absolutely the future though and I expect that to be the primary sensor design going forward with their production. The global shutter has a different motion cadence than the other RED sensors which I have come to like and there is obviously all the benefits when it comes to capturing motion such as fast moving objects or for whip-pans. From my experience also owning Gemini, there is very low noise for no Dual-ISO mode, which impressed me. I do make sure to expose properly and black-shade and I have seen some people claiming issues with noise but that absolutely has not been my experience. I get very clean blacks and find the image usable up to 3200 ISO and the noise you do get when pushing the image is finer like grain which is interesting which I’m guessing is a signature of the global shutter. Skin-tones are much improved over some of the other RED cameras and I would say on par with Gemini / Monstro. Color science is really nice and neutral (no tint of the gate) like some other reds (i.e Helium). RED seems to have done a nice job on the Komodo OLPF which is not swappable but reminiscent of the DSMC2 STHL (Skin Tone Highlight) OLPF. Battery life is excellent and there are a lot of V-Mount and Gold Mount adaptors out or coming out as well.

    Overall I would rate the RED cameras as follows in terms of IQ ..... Monstro, Gemini, Dragon, Komodo, Helium in my preference. In terms of rating the cameras considering a ratio of IQ/Price-Point I would say Gemini, Komodo, Dragon, Helium, Monstro. For the price there is no cheaper entry into a cinema camera that shoots 16-bit RAW in this form factor with such high dynamic range and a global shutter. For now Komodo lives on my gimbal until I decide to take it up a mountain or on an adventure where I would have left my Gemini at home. I also use Komodo as my location scouting camera now and build it out in an extremely tiny form factor reminiscent of a Mamiya which has been a total treat and something I have never experienced from any larger cinema camera to have it so accessibly tiny and easy to take a long with you anywhere. This is why I got Komodo to be the best B-cam for someone who is already invested in the RED ecosystem but at $6000 for the brain and a built package coming in at about $10,000 and considering it is "as good or better" at some things than its bigger brothers, it really is great value. Whether you love or hate RED the camera is legit.
    Great, real world feedback! Thank you.
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    #24
    Senior Member Grug's Avatar
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    Appreciate the detailed feedback sleek.

    Quote Originally Posted by sleekmedia View Post
    In regards to flex from the RF mount from my experience this is a non issue. I use Leica-R glass that is cine-modded with Nucleus-M focus motors at high torque and there is zero movement from the mount. I would only be concerned with Anamorphic's or long cine zooms but they usually come in PL mount and the PL mount adapters available for RF/PL on the market all have ways to be bolted and integrated into the body, side plates/cages or a baseplate for support so again a non-issue.
    On this point though, I'm not so sure. I've seen videos (on the Komodo FB group) of multiple different PL-mount flexing quite noticeably whilst already locked in place with their various support feet/brackets.

    Which might not be a big deal with compact lenses like the little Leica Rs. But for any normal PL-mount prime (which generally weigh in at around 1kg-2.5kg each), with conventional Arri/Preston FIZ motors, the level of flex I have seen on some of these mounts would be very much problematic.

    The Vocas PL-mount + bracket seems like the safest bet at this stage - but you're throwing out the possibility of using behind-the-lens NDs with the Vocas.


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    I saw the video too if we saw the same one. It was from Cole Walliser (Glambot) and I forget which model PL mount he had but I think it also may have something to do with his Wooden Camera baseplate and how he had everything attached. Regardless, the Vocas is absolutely rock solid and so is the Kippertie Revolva as it bolts into their chin strap (sold separately).


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    #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleekmedia View Post
    I saw the video too if we saw the same one. It was from Cole Walliser (Glambot) and I forget which model PL mount he had but I think it also may have something to do with his Wooden Camera baseplate and how he had everything attached. Regardless, the Vocas is absolutely rock solid and so is the Kippertie Revolva as it bolts into their chin strap (sold separately).
    The Revolva EF/RF is what I have my eye on, with a "custom" ND cartridge fitted out to Clear, 2, 4 & 6 stops instead of the (to me) odd Clear, 2, 4 & 7. I asked about why they go to 7 stops and they said it's what the Amira and Mini do. To me, a 3-stop jump is way to big. It's actually one of my biggest gripes with the F55.

    Now the question is, do I tell my rep to go ahead with the order? The camera itself isn't that much(for a camera), but then I'll have to fork out at least $2600+ for cards(5x 512GB minimum) and like $1200-$1300 or so for the Revolva. Luckily, I have Canon BP batts from my C300 that could tide me over while deciding on a GM plate. So even though I really don't need "much", because I want to keep it small and lean for b-roll, I'm sitting at $10K and that's not even with a handle or grip or cable for TC.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    The Revolva EF/RF is what I have my eye on, with a "custom" ND cartridge fitted out to Clear, 2, 4 & 6 stops instead of the (to me) odd Clear, 2, 4 & 7. I asked about why they go to 7 stops and they said it's what the Amira and Mini do. To me, a 3-stop jump is way to big. It's actually one of my biggest gripes with the F55.

    Now the question is, do I tell my rep to go ahead with the order? The camera itself isn't that much(for a camera), but then I'll have to fork out at least $2600+ for cards(5x 512GB minimum) and like $1200-$1300 or so for the Revolva. Luckily, I have Canon BP batts from my C300 that could tide me over while deciding on a GM plate. So even though I really don't need "much", because I want to keep it small and lean for b-roll, I'm sitting at $10K and that's not even with a handle or grip or cable for TC.
    Here is a much cheaper option for media, a CFast 2.0 to M.2 adaptor.
    https://store.n.ki/products/solidpod-lite


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    #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleekmedia View Post
    I own a RED Stormtrooper Komodo and Gemini. I thought I would provide some info...
    Thanks!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken1212 View Post
    Here is a much cheaper option for media, a CFast 2.0 to M.2 adaptor.
    https://store.n.ki/products/solidpod-lite
    I think that would be a practical solution for long event recording, interviews and such. But for action, or gimbal/handheld use, you want the Cfast secure behind its locked door.


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    #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleekmedia View Post
    I saw the video too if we saw the same one. It was from Cole Walliser (Glambot) and I forget which model PL mount he had but I think it also may have something to do with his Wooden Camera baseplate and how he had everything attached. Regardless, the Vocas is absolutely rock solid and so is the Kippertie Revolva as it bolts into their chin strap (sold separately).
    Brian Nguyen put out a video on the Kippertie, and even with the chinstrap in place there was still some wiggle. Will it be solid enough for most things? Hopefully, but we'll need to test it with a proper follow focus and FIZ motors to be sure. But it's something people should absolutely keep in mind for motion work.

    It's (unfortunately) just the nature of using lightweight, stills photography lens mounts for motion picture work. Complete rigidity isn't a design requirement for stills lenses (which are only taking a single frame at a time).


    Edit:

    Here's some videos showing the Kippertie with the Chinstrap in place:

    https://i.imgur.com/fN5bGKZ.mp4

    https://i.imgur.com/NWe4wu3.mp4

    I'm going to test it out when I get the chance, but from the looks of it, that's probably more flex than I'm going to be able to tolerate. The guys at Keslow who did these tests, say they tested all of the available options, and apparently the Vocas (unsurprisingly) is the only one that was totally secure, and didn't have backfocus issues when adding filters/matteboxes to the lens.

    That's a bit frustrating as it might rule out "internal" ND options for the camera (for my needs at least). But reliability is always going to trounce convenience as far as I'm concerned.
    Last edited by Grug; 10-15-2020 at 01:50 AM.


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