Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24
  1. Collapse Details
    Do you enjoy argument?
    #1
    Default
    I don't. However there is evidence to suggest that not everyone feels that way.

    Disagreement causes in me a visceral response that is like a mild form of PTSD. I'm naturally diplomatic. I believe personality is partly genetic, the Myers-Briggs system seems uncannily accurate, and I most resonate with the description of the INFJ. But I also believe personality is partly environmental. Almost every evening of my childhood, my parents fought like cats and dogs. Thankfully, it was usually only verbal. I remember only one time it turned to physical violence, and no one was hurt bad. Anyway, because of both nature and nurture, when someone disagrees with me, my impulse is to make amends immediately. If I witness two people arguing, I want to step in and help them find common ground as soon as possible, lest there be bloodshed.

    Nevertheless, my public policy is something like, "All opinions are mine and subject to fallibility. If you notice an error, please reply and our office will rectify the situation immediately." I'm sure everyone here has the same public policy. Often I have seen you append it like a disclaimer, something like, "I think the movie was awful, but hey it's just my opinion, and you're welcome to disagree."

    That's the civilized attitude, but I have a hard time believing you really feel that way deep down. I have a hard time believing that, when someone contradicts you, you don't feel one of two negative emotions: (1) shame, which is what I feel immediately, and try to defend myself, or (2) anger, which is what my father often showed. He seemed always to be confusing disagreement with disrespect. When I contradict someone, I can't help assuming that I am making them mad at me, because that is the natural human response (unless you have been abused like me, in which case you are more likely to feel shame).

    This assumption of mine, that everyone hates to be argued with, is brought into question from time to time. For example, there are people who outright state that they are energized by a good argument, or that time they got into a knock-down-drag-out fight with someone and now are best friends. (This would definitely not happen to me. I would avoid the person for the rest of my life.) The Myers-Briggs personality theory lists such types (for example, the ENTP) and goes on to say that each type argues in their own way. Also on this forum I have watched two people argue and think to myself, "Man, that's too bad, now they hate each other." But then to my surprise they are joking with each other a day or two later.

    This has some practical application on this board. As you may have noticed, there is a lot of argument. A wise moderator on another board, Hacker News, suggests that forums are in fact fueled by debate. On internet forums such as this one, there is also debate about debate, complaints that someone is being rude or harsh. We saw that recently in the thread about Dune. Strangely, OldCorpse, your tone doesn't bother me. Nevertheless, I hesitate to contradict you, for the reasons cited above. The others have a point in that a logical response to someone like you saying, "that guy is a total hack", as opposed to "I kinda-sorta don't like some of the things that director does", is that you don't want to engage in argument. It will get ugly, so they had best not bother. This is because if someone contradicts a strongly held belief, you are more likely to reflexively feel anger than if someone contradicts a lightly held belief. Still like I said, your words don't bother me, maybe because I hate the philosophy of relativism. It may be that things look to be shades of gray, but decisions are black and white: Yes/No. I will go see this movie, or I will not go see this movie. Commentary that doesn't beat around the bush makes these myriad decisions easier (for better or worse).

    The other practical application is that often I want to debate someone but hesitate. Already I argue more than you would guess I would (if anyone was tracking me). Like I said, I am introverted. Introverts tend to be bookish. Bookish people tend to care about factual accuracy. This is me:

    Duty_calls.jpg

    I hate arguing, but I also can't stand to see misinformation persist. It is the whole meaning behind my username. So I find myself often wanting to chime in, in a futile attempt to rid the world of error, but at the same time hesitating because I don't want to cause anyone unnecessary stress.

    So, tell me, how do you really feel when someone argues with you?
    Last edited by combatentropy; 09-20-2020 at 07:01 PM.


    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
    #2
    Senior Member Batutta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Planet 10
    Posts
    7,560
    Default
    It was once stated that 93 percent of all communication is non-verbal. The actual words being said are only seven percent of the conversation...But this is for in person conversation. On the internet, words are all you have, which is why I believe it's important to be accurate in what you say and not resort to hyperbole. Hyperbole can work when you see the face of the person you are talking to, as you can gauge the true degree of that person's opinion in spite of their harsh words. Online you can only take what someone's saying at face value unless they qualify it sufficiently. I generally dislike arguing on the internet for this very reason. You get no points or attention for a rational, measured response. Only the most provocative opinions get attention and consideration, and this often ends up in disrespect and name calling. I'll debate someone in person for hours. I have a friend I've known since college and we've had countless discussions that went on way into the night without anyone's feelings being hurt. My wife and I argue about stupid stuff all the time, but we rarely have out and out fights. I've been married for 25 years now and I chalk up the longevity to our relationship to us never intentionally disrespecting the other person.
    Last edited by Batutta; 09-20-2020 at 05:00 PM.
    "Money doesn't make films...You just do it and take the initiative." - Werner Herzog


    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
    #3
    Still "Senior Member" Gord.T's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Belleville ON
    Posts
    3,988
    Default
    I don't think I've ever had an argument on dvx(oh yeah I got a warning once).Opinions are just that and sometimes they are enlightening.
    I swear alot and like Batutta sais, basically, it can look weird in print. When I skyped with Charli online and swore a bit while
    speaking she said something about the way I swear in print versus hearing me swear in person. It looks like 10X worse in print. She
    was surprised by the way I swore as not sounding at all like it appears to sound in print and laughed a bit.

    Arguments? I don't know. Just different opinions. No politics though because then I think some of us can go off the handle. Me
    included hahaha.
    Last edited by Gord.T; 09-20-2020 at 06:38 PM.
    "Remember To Dip the Right End of the Cigar in your $250.00 dollar glass of Brandy." -Doc Bernard.


    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
    #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Charlottesville, va
    Posts
    2,614
    Default
    I enjoy debate on disagreed points where facts matter more than feelings.

    Arguing on emotions is a pointless exercise for all involved.

    Modern teaching and culture has greatly emphasized feelings over facts.

    Thus, most online arguments wind up being pointless. Still, I keep trying because sometimes it isnít, and itís nice to find common ground once in a while in the midst of it. Thatís how people used to operate and advance civilization.


    FWIW, in case youíre keeping a spreadsheet or anything, Iím a solid INTP (lol, I know, a Feeler would never keep a spreadsheet ). I keed, I keed
    Pudgy bearded camera guy
    http://mcbob.tv


    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
    #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,990
    Default
    I do not like arguments. I will usually let someone go on believing they are right when they are wrong unless it's about to get them or someone else killed or hurt. Arguing and correcting just wastes so much time and our time now on earth is short.
    I've noticed in dealing with thousands and thousands of people through my ministries and jobs that many people like to argue and put others down. We also like to see pain. We like to see others fail. Very early on, people love a "fight" whether it's elementary kids punching each other or TV personalities slinging mud.
    It is also interesting that in this post-modern secular humanistic age the idea that whatever a person believes is truth, even though what they believe may be 180 degrees from the truth. It starts with how we see ourselves and then how we see everything else. As a man thinketh in his heart, so he is. Every man is right in his own eyes...etc. This is the foundation.

    There is something inside us that likes to think we are better than others and put them down and that is often seen from our "need" to win arguments.
    As we have all seen this really blossoms on the internet where we pound our chests and bash others making ourselves feel mighty going even further than most of us would do to their face.
    Having said that discussions and debates can be healthy, helpful and productive, so long as it's not about glorifying self and tearing down others.


    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
    #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    West of the Pecos
    Posts
    2,547
    Default
    Close the thread. Your five minutes are up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ


    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
    #7
    Still "Senior Member" Gord.T's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Belleville ON
    Posts
    3,988
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    Close the thread. Your five minutes are up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ
    I disagree. (lol)
    "Remember To Dip the Right End of the Cigar in your $250.00 dollar glass of Brandy." -Doc Bernard.


    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
    #8
    Default
    I was waiting for someone to post that Monty Python skit

    To clarify my question, by argument I mean any kind of disagreement. Nowadays a lot of people hear argue and think quarrel or bicker, like my parents used to do in the evening. But I include those meanings as well as the older meaning, retained in courtrooms: to state your position and support it with reasons, logic, evidence, etc.

    In fact I don't see them as different kinds of disagreement but different degrees in quality of execution. If you look at almost any disagreement, there are reasons trotted out, but they vary in their strength of evidence and logical coherence --- often depending, yes, on how sober the arguers keep themselves.

    On DVXUser as a whole, I would say the quality is . . . medium. Sometimes people argue strenuously with no logical consistency or third-party evidence, and sometimes we say something really insightful and sublimely helpful.
    Last edited by combatentropy; 09-20-2020 at 08:33 PM.


    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
    #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,054
    Default
    I do not. Any real argument I've had in I don't know how long has been (sigh) online, and they leave me pissed off for days. Maybe longer. I don't know what that says about how little I have going on in my life but I've decided the best solution is not even to start unless it's insanely important (spoiler alert, I don't think it ever has been). I'm really trying to start asking myself, (unless I KNOW I'm right about something...what I'm talking about above is really more opinion/POV stuff) "is this going to turn into a whole thing? And if it does, am I ok with that?" before I even start.


    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
    #10
    Still "Senior Member" Gord.T's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Belleville ON
    Posts
    3,988
    Default
    I responded to a guy that posted YT videos attacking the character of a girl that I knew as well as another vid doing the same thing. I got mad ofcourse and responded with anger at first then tried explaining to one poster that this poster was wrong and why and politely asked her to introduce herself to me in the bar downtown someday and we'll have a couple beers and I'll enlighten her on some facts and in the meantime to stop posting falsehoods about my friend in public. She agreed.

    The other guy posting vids, that gets off on attacking my friends character, to make himself look good on YT, that vid was eventually taken down.
    It's pathetic what people will do for attention these days for YT views and/or thinking they are so much better than someone else and they don't know anything about them other than false rumours. Echoing what some of you guys are saying.

    //On the bright side, Paul F's post of the Monty Python vid tonight cracked me right up. That was good! I laughed pretty good. Thank-you.
    Last edited by Gord.T; 09-20-2020 at 09:05 PM.
    "Remember To Dip the Right End of the Cigar in your $250.00 dollar glass of Brandy." -Doc Bernard.


    Reply With Quote
     

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •