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    #31
    Member JAMedia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMedia
    Class disappeared to a larger extent in the UK after WW2 and certainly in the 60's. It was mainly the middle class (differentiating themselves from the working class below and aspiring to the upper class above) who were more class conscious than the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liam Hall View Post
    Jacob Rees-Mogg will disagree...
    I think that rather proves my point on lack of class.


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    #32
    Senior Member Liam Hall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    This guy?

    Attachment 140560

    He'd never stand for classism in the UK.

    PS I apparently missed some of the great renditions of this meme when he first took the lie-down heard round the world:

    Attachment 140561

    Attachment 140562
    Yup. He's a bit of a national joke. More than a bit...
    www.liamhall.net
    TWITTER: @FilmLiam
    INSTAGRAM: @picsbyliam


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    #33
    Senior Member Liam Hall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    It's pretty embarrassing when an organization of standardization can't even standardize their own pronunciation. (And how do you like all the ZEEs in that sentence, my British friends?)
    They're called ZEDS!
    www.liamhall.net
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    #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Arthurs View Post
    "AIR E" or "ARE E"? I've said AIR E since the early '80's, picked up from the rental house I suppose, and cringe when I hear ARE E. YouTube hipsters and young trendsters always say ARE E. And people new to the name also seem to default to ARE E. I really want to correct them, but can I?
    Air E, would be the American English way of saying it, so it's kinda stuck, especially since a large portion of their product is sold in the U.S.

    ARRI is a German company, so they would pronounce is Are E. The company's name is the combination of Arnold and Richter (pronounced Reeshter).

    I myself flip back and forth because I never really liked Air E. It just sounds wrong to me. I don't know anyone that pronounces their name as Airnold.


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    #35
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    What about AngÚnieux? So many different ways of saying it.

    Do you prefer ANN jeh new? AWN jeh new? AWW(nasal) zjuh new? Do you go full accent and do aww(nasal) ZJEY neu, with the accent on the second syllable?


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    #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by combatentropy View Post
    I have been saying Bayer filter wrong. It's pronounced like buyer, because that's how Bryce Bayer's name was pronounced.
    Technically, it's not quite pronounced Buyer either, because it is a German last name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_(surname)

    So, in German, while the first syllable would be pronounce Buy or Bai, the last syllable would be pronounced with a German unstressed er, which goes to an AY-ah sound. It's close to "air" mixed with "uh". So the closest I would be able to say it without an accent would be Buyuh or Baia (rhymes with Gaia).

    I think I'm just going to call it an Aspirin Pattern Sensor going forward.
    Last edited by Joshua Cadmium; 09-22-2020 at 01:25 AM.


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    #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Cadmium View Post
    Air E, would be the American English way of saying it, so it's kinda stuck, especially since a large portion of their product is sold in the U.S.

    ARRI is a German company, so they would pronounce is Are E. The company's name is the combination of Arnold and Richter (pronounced Reeshter).
    I myself flip back and forth because I never really liked Air E. It just sounds wrong to me. I don't know anyone that pronounces their name as Airnold.
    Having lived and worked in Germany I would agree with that. I worked with a company that was spelt with an "HI" in it. and being British I pronounced it as "Hi".
    The German's pronounced it "HE"


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    #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Cadmium View Post
    What about AngÚnieux? So many different ways of saying it.

    Do you prefer ANN jeh new? AWN jeh new? AWW(nasal) zjuh new? Do you go full accent and do aww(nasal) ZJEY neu, with the accent on the second syllable?
    Want to get me started on French pronounciations ? ;)

    You pronounce AngÚnieux : anh - jeh - nieu

    It's more easy for Frenchies to pronounce Japanese because both languages are without "tone", so we are used to say "bokÚ".


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    #39
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    What if someone mentioned that new film by Martin Scorsees at the Cans Film Festival?

    This is lots of fun exploring linguistic variation, but a lot of the examples are international. When Japan imported baseball, they called it besuboru, because of their language's stricter rules (all syllables must end in a vowel) and phoneme set (15 instead of 42). I have no problem with that.

    Bryce Bayer died recently and is from the United States. His friends had no problem pronouncing his name while he was alive. And how would you say this sentence, "Bryce Bayer invented the Bayer Filter." How would you say it at his funeral? Would you say it one way in front of his widow and another on the set with your crew, simply because you don't want to get into it? I'm not even sure it would be a big deal.

    "What do you think of RGB striping versus the Bayer Filter?"
    "The what?"
    "Bayer Filter."
    "I thought was pronounced Bayer."
    "The guy who invented it pronounced his name Bayer."
    "Oh."

    (Something is lost of this conversation in print. Which reminds me that this issue will almost never come up, because 99% of your usage will be in print.)

    Scientists have lots of stuff named after people, like the Riemann Hypothesis. I want to pronounce it Ryeman, but mathematicians dutifully pronounce it Reeman.

    The example of Carnegie Hall is the closest relevant example, so thanks, Mitch. Still, that's a difference in which syllable is stressed: Cßrnegie vs. CarnÚgie, which I think is milder than switching out vowels. Coincidentally I just heard a recording of Steve Jobs talking about Carnegie Mellon, and he pronounced it CarnÚgie, so some people are giving it the old college try. I read that Carnegie Mellon in fact is quite opinionated about it. Also my Scottish high school history teacher of course pronounced it CarnÚgie. (I like the musicality of Cßrnegie better, though, so I won't be issuing any citations.)

    Some of you have bristled at the idea of being corrected for your language, that it is a tool used by the Man to keep the outsiders on the outside, or something like that. Not at all. Take a look at this bit of English:

    My fate cries out
    And makes each petty artery in this body
    As hardy as the Nemean lion's nerve.
    Still am I called.—Unhand me, gentlemen.
    (draws his sword)
    By heaven, I’ll make a ghost of him that lets me.

    --- Hamlet, I, iv

    What's the last line about him killing anyone who "lets" him? It turns out that "lets" means "hinders", the opposite of what it means now. Something to do with two words that sound the same but from different roots. Overall though, it's fairly understandable, more so than many Shakespearean passages. If the actors keep that up at the speed of speech, I think it's safe to say that most of us get lost unless we've studied the play. Someone may say, "Yeah, but that's from 400 years ago." I say, "Yeah, but it was only 400 years ago."

    Or how about this:

    Whan that Aprille with his shoures soote,
    The droghte of March hath perced to the roote,
    And bathed every veyne in swich licˇur
    Of which vert˙ engendred is the flour;
    Whan Zephirus eek with his swete breeth
    Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
    The tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
    Hath in the Ram his halfe cours y-ronne,
    And smale foweles maken melodye,
    That slepen al the nyght with open ye,
    So priketh hem Nat˙re in hir corages,
    Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages

    --- The Canterbury Tales

    Someone may say, "Yeah, but that's from 600 years ago." I say, "Yeah, but it was only 600 years ago." And this is still what linguists call Middle English. Shakespeare is actually part of Modern English, Chaucer is Middle English, and if you go back to Old English, it looks like this:

    HwŠt. We Gardena in geardagum,
    ■eodcyninga, ■rym gefrunon,
    hu ­a Š■elingas ellen fremedon.
    Oft Scyld Scefing scea■ena ■reatum,
    monegum mŠg■um, meodosetla ofteah,
    egsode eorlas. Sy­­an Šrest wear­
    feasceaft funden, he ■Šs frofre gebad,
    weox under wolcnum, weor­myndum ■ah,
    o­■Št him Šghwylc ■ara ymbsittendra
    ofer hronrade hyran scolde,
    gomban gyldan.

    --- Beowulf

    Someone may say, "Yeah, but that was a thousand years ago." I say, "Yeah --- okay, yeah, that was a thousand years ago." Still!

    I think the reason most people correct other people's use of language isn't to be some gatekeeper to an exclusive club or put others down, but because we all have an instinct to preserve our language and keep it from drift. Because that's what it is: drift. There is no improvement in Modern English over Old English. I'm not sure it's worse either, although some will say it's too bad we lost our verb markers and noun genders, it made sentences less likely to be misheard. Oh yeah, and the double negative, it was once grammatical in English, as it is in Spanish and other languages, because it's not a multiplier (-1 x -1) but an adder (-1 + -1), a bit check, because the difference between "I can get satisfaction" and "I can't get satisfaction" is 180 degrees. Better throw an extra negatory in there just in case.

    And I don't think English spelling and pronunciation is as freewheeling as some of you claim. Go ahead and spell things however you please in your next email to a client. Spelling used to be more flexible. The problem is that it crystallized at some point, but pronunciation kept changing. For example, the silent e. It used to be quite vocal. For example, wife used to be pronounced weefay, just how a Spaniard would want to pronounce it. All our vowels used to be pronounced how they do in Europe. The problem is that English had the Great Vowel Shift (1400-1700). It was so slow, you wouldn't notice it happening, but by the end, all our vowels had moved. It was sort of a domino effect. One vowel started to be pronounced differently (maybe like how surfers say "dihood") and then other vowels moved to fill their place, and before you knew it all the vowels were sitting in different chairs.

    Speaking of surfers, everyone brings up "I could care less." But its prototypical recitation is in the tone of sarcasm, at least that's what Steven Pinker says, a linguist at MIT. Much of what I have said I cribbed from his book, The Language Instinct, which I would put in my top 5.

    So what was my point? Oh yeah, my point is that Bayer is spelled Bayer because that was actually the right spelling back then (whenever his ancestors chose a spelling for their last name). The a was pronounced ah, and the y was pronounced ee, and when you say those two sounds quickly together it makes what we call "the long i", which isn't phonetically a single vowel but a diphthong, even though we now spell it with a single letter, like in bite --- well two, if you count that silent e.

    We all have to draw the line somewhere. I think in this instance I will try to say Bayer how Bayer said Bayer.
    Last edited by combatentropy; 09-22-2020 at 07:16 PM.


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    #40
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    wot he sayed


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