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    #11
    Rockin the Boat
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    And this is new how? Those who don't remember their history are doomed to repeat it. You know where there is a nasty precendent of Hollywood bending to the mores of a vicious totalitarian regime? Yes, Nazi Germany and Hollywood. Same exact thing: market forces, hollywood bends to their desires, alters their product and so on. And that had much higher stakes given the anti-Semitism of the Nazis and the Jewish presence in Hollywood:

    How the Nazis took control of Hollywood

    It's funny to see people beating the drums of the China censorship when exactly the same thing and worse happened in the runup to WWII with Nazi Germany. It's as if we don't remember history

    Yep, the almighty dollar. Anti-Semitism you say? You'd think Hollywood of all places would take a strong stand against it. You'd think that, and you'd be wrong. Hello, has Mel Gibson been cancelled or does he still get to make Hollywood movies? There's your answer! And he's not the only one. There's one rule and one rule only: money. Do you have PC views, non-PC views, Oscars to your name, zero skills and talent, are a beloved figure or raging a$$hole - NONE of it matters as long as you make $ you are golden and if you don't make $ then no matter who you are, you're dirt. Same as it ever was. Sell your soul and use the proceeds to pay your mortgage, some souls are cheaper than others so pay for your coffee.

    And sadly, most Americans do not care, because there’s probably as much anti-American sentiment here in the US as there is almost anywhere else in the world.

    This used to be the greatest nation in the world. We were looked up to and envied by everyone else. Now Americans are being taught to hate America by other “Americans”.


    And this is the scariest part - folks thinking that patriotism means anti-Americanism. When the exact opposite is the case. The real patriots are the critics. Those who proclaim "my country right or wrong" eventually destroy the country if they are numerous enough or strong enough - we have the whole world history as proof, from Ancient Rome and before. It's the critics, every time, who lead to reforms that save their nation - all the while vilified as "anti" whatever it may be (Roman, Russian, Chinese, whatnot). When the critics are silenced, either through force or through being shouted down by the more numerous flag wavers ("patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel") your country declines and weakens - we've seen this over and over again. If you have nothing critical to say about your country, you are not looking hard enough. TREASURE YOUR CRITICS - they are your only salvation, the flag wavers and flatteres are your destruction. A lesson you can apply to anything... including your screenplay or film ... since we are on a filmmaking forum. Would you rather have bootlickers as the readers of your screenplay or folks willing to criticize? The critic may be right or may be wrong, that's for the society/artist/target to decide. But only a fool decries the critic.

    We used to be the greatest nation in the world - and in many ways still are - precisely because of "critics". Those critics who were expelled from their unappreciative countries and who brought their critical wisdom to America AND MADE IT GREAT. Are we going to repeat the mistakes of those who lost and destroyed their countries and decry our critics? America had freedom of speech and prevailed over the mass patriotism and nationalism of their opponents, Germany, Russia, Japan. We'd be fools not to learn from history - it is exactly our critics who made us strong. The doctor who discovers your disease is to be praised, the critic who protests your flaws is to be praised, the architect you discovers the flaw in the bridge design is to be praised. LONG LIVE THE CRITIC FOR HE MAKES YOU STRONG! Those who do not reform in response to the critic, break down and decline. Those who make reform impossible, make revolution inevitable. Reform, evolve or die. The critic is the canary in the mine. Americans are not being taught to be critics enough.


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    #12
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCorpse View Post
    And this is new how? Those who don't remember their history are doomed to repeat it. You know where there is a nasty precendent of Hollywood bending to the mores of a vicious totalitarian regime? Yes, Nazi Germany and Hollywood. Same exact thing: market forces, hollywood bends to their desires, alters their product and so on. And that had much higher stakes given the anti-Semitism of the Nazis and the Jewish presence in Hollywood:

    How the Nazis took control of Hollywood

    It's funny to see people beating the drums of the China censorship when exactly the same thing and worse happened in the runup to WWII with Nazi Germany. It's as if we don't remember history

    Yep, the almighty dollar. Anti-Semitism you say? You'd think Hollywood of all places would take a strong stand against it. You'd think that, and you'd be wrong. Hello, has Mel Gibson been cancelled or does he still get to make Hollywood movies? There's your answer! And he's not the only one. There's one rule and one rule only: money. Do you have PC views, non-PC views, Oscars to your name, zero skills and talent, are a beloved figure or raging a$$hole - NONE of it matters as long as you make $ you are golden and if you don't make $ then no matter who you are, you're dirt. Same as it ever was. Sell your soul and use the proceeds to pay your mortgage, some souls are cheaper than others so pay for your coffee.

    And sadly, most Americans do not care, because there’s probably as much anti-American sentiment here in the US as there is almost anywhere else in the world.

    This used to be the greatest nation in the world. We were looked up to and envied by everyone else. Now Americans are being taught to hate America by other “Americans”.


    And this is the scariest part - folks thinking that patriotism means anti-Americanism. When the exact opposite is the case. The real patriots are the critics. Those who proclaim "my country right or wrong" eventually destroy the country if they are numerous enough or strong enough - we have the whole world history as proof, from Ancient Rome and before. It's the critics, every time, who lead to reforms that save their nation - all the while vilified as "anti" whatever it may be (Roman, Russian, Chinese, whatnot). When the critics are silenced, either through force or through being shouted down by the more numerous flag wavers ("patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel") your country declines and weakens - we've seen this over and over again. If you have nothing critical to say about your country, you are not looking hard enough. TREASURE YOUR CRITICS - they are your only salvation, the flag wavers and flatteres are your destruction. A lesson you can apply to anything... including your screenplay or film ... since we are on a filmmaking forum. Would you rather have bootlickers as the readers of your screenplay or folks willing to criticize? The critic may be right or may be wrong, that's for the society/artist/target to decide. But only a fool decries the critic.

    We used to be the greatest nation in the world - and in many ways still are - precisely because of "critics". Those critics who were expelled from their unappreciative countries and who brought their critical wisdom to America AND MADE IT GREAT. Are we going to repeat the mistakes of those who lost and destroyed their countries and decry our critics? America had freedom of speech and prevailed over the mass patriotism and nationalism of their opponents, Germany, Russia, Japan. We'd be fools not to learn from history - it is exactly our critics who made us strong. The doctor who discovers your disease is to be praised, the critic who protests your flaws is to be praised, the architect you discovers the flaw in the bridge design is to be praised. LONG LIVE THE CRITIC FOR HE MAKES YOU STRONG! Those who do not reform in response to the critic, break down and decline. Those who make reform impossible, make revolution inevitable. Reform, evolve or die. The critic is the canary in the mine. Americans are not being taught to be critics enough.
    That is one of the largest problems with Hollywood, because no one has the stones to say anything against the boring drivel that is being churned out, because they don't want to lose their jobs.

    And so I don't run afoul of the rules here, I'll keep it generic and simply say what I've said before, in slightly different words and phrasing: You can love your country without loving its government.


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    #13
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    I don't want to break any "no politics" rules, so I'm gonna drop that aspect of it. However I agree with this:

    That is one of the largest problems with Hollywood, because no one has the stones to say anything against the boring drivel that is being churned out, because they don't want to lose their jobs.

    And that brings up the question what to do about this. Guess what - it also ties in with the OT. How do you avoid bending to China's will and how do you avoid making boring formulaic content? You make your own content without Hollywood participation and without worrying about the Chinese market. One of the blessings and curses of the market is the great fragmentation. There is enough of a niche where you can make a film that doesn't need to show in the Chinese market, or satisfy the demands of the bean counters at the studio. And production costs are dropping. It's easier than ever to produce content by an independent creator. The flip side is that distribution and monetizing your product is where it gets tricky. But it's the only way to break the logjam. You just have to resolve not to pay the ransom - which means going your own way and perhaps not making quite as much money. Ultimately that's healthier for the culture anyway.


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    #14
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCorpse View Post
    I don't want to break any "no politics" rules, so I'm gonna drop that aspect of it. However I agree with this:

    That is one of the largest problems with Hollywood, because no one has the stones to say anything against the boring drivel that is being churned out, because they don't want to lose their jobs.

    And that brings up the question what to do about this. Guess what - it also ties in with the OT. How do you avoid bending to China's will and how do you avoid making boring formulaic content? You make your own content without Hollywood participation and without worrying about the Chinese market. One of the blessings and curses of the market is the great fragmentation. There is enough of a niche where you can make a film that doesn't need to show in the Chinese market, or satisfy the demands of the bean counters at the studio. And production costs are dropping. It's easier than ever to produce content by an independent creator. The flip side is that distribution and monetizing your product is where it gets tricky. But it's the only way to break the logjam. You just have to resolve not to pay the ransom - which means going your own way and perhaps not making quite as much money. Ultimately that's healthier for the culture anyway.
    We are definitely in a "golden age" of content. Some of the best movies and shows available are the ones being made by the streamers and cable networks, who aren't afraid to push the boundaries(or at least are much less afraid).

    Another old saying that applies: "You can't please all of the people all of the time". But that's exactly what "Hollywood" tries to do with movies designed(destined) for theatrical release. They try to please everyone, so that everyone will come to see them. On the one hand, you kind of can't blame them for wanting to appeal to the widest audience possible, but times have changed and audiences are getting more used to having boundaries pushed and a larger variety to choose from, and that's what they want and expect. Yeah, the Marvel movies are tour de forces with regards to production values, special effects and star power, but I get 100x the excitement watching Yellowstone, which has probably cost less to make over the last three seasons in total than just one Avenger's movie.


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    FWIW, Hitler and Göbbels (Minister of propaganda) really liked Hollywood musicals and UFA (Universum Film AG) ended up creating their own series with a Hungarian born and Hollywood trained Marika Rökk (1913-2004), along with the Dutch born Jonannes Heesters (1903-2011). Hitler himself preferred the Viennese operettas, with his favorite being Franz Lehar's "Die Lustige Witwe" ("The Merry Widow", 1905). His favorite singer Peter Anders, an operatic tenor, was given quite a leeway to perform songs from the "Merry Widow" (which was written by Jewish librettists Leo Rosenstein and Victor Leon Herschfeld) and all the major Emmerich Kalman operettas, which had all Jewish creators (Kalman himself, with Rosentein and Bela Jenbach on "Csardasfürstin", and subsequently Julius Brammer and Alfred Grünwald). Aside of the political and ideological fair controlled by Göbbels himself, there was a large number of the apolitical, lighter productions.

    Rökk, Heesters and Anders emerged in the postwar era relatively unscathed. Zarah Leander, a Swedish star who had a big hit in Germany with "Bei mir bist du schön" (until the Nazis realized it was written in Yiddish, which is basically the same as in German, aside of the "shein" / "schön" difference) had a more difficult time after returning back home in Sweden.

    All were more popular than a German born US citizen Marlene Dietrich, who was severely disliked by the military for entertaining Americans on the front lines.

    After the war, most of the films in German possession fell into the Soviet hands, who promptly overdubbed them into Russian and kept showing musicals like the "Sun Valley Serenade" and "Die Frau meiner Träume" (The Woman of my Dreams", 1944) well into the 1960's. Not so oddly, the German film was in color, the American was not.


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    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Why is it not so odd that the German film was in color and the American one was not?


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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    Why is it not so odd that the German film was in color and the American one was not?
    AGFA made the best color film (Agfacolor) of the late 1930's. Plus, UFA was state owned and picked up the cost of he production. AGFA itself was merged by the German government in 1925 into IG Farben with other chemical companies like BASF and Bayer. IG Farben was broken up after the war. For the well known reasons.

    And a historical tidbit - AGFA was started by Felix Mendelsohn's son Paul back in 1867. It has gone through the various iterations and is now headquartered in Belgium.

    And here's Marika Rökk in the "Woman of my dream". Similarity to lavish Hollywood musicals is not so accidental.



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    Dang that's gorgeous. Pretty rough operating on the tripod head though.

    What are the well known reasons IG Farben was broken up?


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    Nazis, chemicals.... I think you can connect the dots
    Pudgy bearded camera guy
    http://mcbob.tv


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    Joseph Schmidt was an Austrian (Galicia, now part of Ukraine) born tenor, who's considered one of the all time greats. After 1933, he was banned by the Nazis from living and traveling in Germany but allowed to occasionally perform for the exclusively Jewish audiences. Rumors have it that, on those rare occasions when he was performing in Der Vaterland, the "Jewish audiences" included a large portion of blond, blue eyed and suspiciously Aryan looking characters, who somehow managed to snap up a scarce ticket to see a superstar of the era.



    I posted more Schmidt videos in the "listening now" thread.


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