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    #61
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    People might disagree with me on this one, but I feel like it rises to the level of abstraction. Sometimes the best thing is simplicity, stripping away the details. There's something super elegant about his mid-step pose that plays against the caption and headline.

    Attachment 140588

    President Trump questioned the integrity of the voting system and said that “we’re going to have to see what happens’’ when asked about a peaceful transition were he to lose the election.Credit...Oliver Contreras for The New York Times
    This is one of those pictures that is nothing without someone attaching some story to it. The old saying is 'a picture is worth a thousand words'. This picture is worth nothing WITHOUT those 1000 words.


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    #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    This is one of those pictures that is nothing without someone attaching some story to it. The old saying is 'a picture is worth a thousand words'. This picture is worth nothing WITHOUT those 1000 words.
    In this case the picture needs some words for context. Time/date/Place Not a thousand words but a succinct caption. For example "09:00, 9/11" or "14:00 9/11" without even needing a year is all that would be needed for many pictures to completely change the perspective and meaning. In this picture of the POTUS a caption of "November 4, 2020" would give it a complexity different complexion to one that ways "Trump in White House Garden". There is one hell of a lot of skill in writing captions for photos (and headlines)

    Many decades ago I saw a calendar that was produced my a company making mining equipment. It was the usual "girly" calendar with 12 pictures of a topless model by a different piece of the company's mining equipment. So far so average and nondescript. Then the they added a singe line from the feature list for each piece of equipment and it became the most sought-after calendar in the industry.
    Some of the features, applied as a caption under the photo were:- Screws in any position. Self lubricating nipples. Self jacking etc. All legitimate features of the equipment. The rest was in the viewers imagination.


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    #63
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    This is one of those pictures that is nothing without someone attaching some story to it. The old saying is 'a picture is worth a thousand words'. This picture is worth nothing WITHOUT those 1000 words.
    More or less. I liked that Trump shot though, except for the red car in the upper left. Beautiful colors in the greenery and his suit. The faceless head has that feeling of the man in a bowler hat painting. The suggestiveness of the centered composition and him turning away, mid-stride. All in all, pretty expressive for a simple photojournalism shot. Sometimes it's ok if a shot needs a little context. But even without it, I think theres a bit of mystery. But nobody would ever frame it on their wall


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    [QUOTE=ahalpert;1986843490]More or less. I liked that Trump shot though, except for the red car in the upper left.

    I would have coropped the shot to exclude the car as it is a distraction.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    Beautiful colors in the greenery and his suit. The faceless head has that feeling of the man in a bowler hat painting. The suggestiveness of the centered composition and him turning away, mid-stride. All in all, pretty expressive for a simple photojournalism shot.
    If Trump looses in November I expect you will see that shot a lot more.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    Sometimes it's ok if a shot needs a little context.
    I agree knowing where or when makes all the difference if it is not obvious from the photo.


    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    But nobody would ever frame it on their wall
    You want a bet? When it becomes an "Iconic" photo and "everyone" knows the context then it does go on walls.


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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMedia View Post
    It is a "no changes" rule that is very strictly adhered to in the reputable press. Also by any photographer who wants to stay employed and employable.

    BTW I still haven't heard from the person who disliked my police picture. I can only assume the are too ashamed to come out of the closet and say they did it. :-)
    Sometimes when scrolling on a portable device, the up/down icons are mistakenly clicked. I've done this myself on my tablet in other threads. The person may not even be aware that this did this, and I don't think there is a way to fix it if it was truly a mistake.


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    #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_E View Post
    Sometimes when scrolling on a portable device, the up/down icons are mistakenly clicked. I've done this myself on my tablet in other threads. The person may not even be aware that this did this, and I don't think there is a way to fix it if it was truly a mistake.
    That was an intentional up vote by me :-)


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    #67
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    This is one of those pictures that is nothing without someone attaching some story to it. The old saying is 'a picture is worth a thousand words'. This picture is worth nothing WITHOUT those 1000 words.
    I agree. This photo might be Trump walking towards a building like the White House, which has a very different meaning. It has very little context and is part of the trend that someone else was saying in another recent thread: "emotions sell".

    Journalism photos are often more about aesthetics and choosing the moment to illicit an emotion rather than give information. all of these Trump photos are giving off an emotion, but have very little contextual information. So, if you don't read the captions or article, you still are left with a sense of the expressions.

    - Empty space behind Trumps back and short sided space in front of his face.
    - moments when Trump's eyes are closed or his eyes shifted to the side.
    - face is obscured by shadow or hand etc.
    - The lighting and dark cloudy evening.
    - back towards camera, head slightly down turned, isolated figure.
    - loss of horizon, or "dutch angled" framing.
    - highlighting a physical attribute like the bushy eyebrows in an extreme close up.
    - dark heavy vignette

    Most of these photos slightly dehumanize the figure. By obscuring the face, we feel less connected to the subject. They also attempt to capture moments of negative emotions. Otherwise they have no context about where he is, or what he is doing. Most of them could have been taken anywhere at anytime. So, in a sense they are good photos because they give the emotional impact that the photographer or editor wanted, but they have little journalistic importance. The lighting photo is dynamic, and a nice catch. But is still just an emotional photo that means little unless someone wants it to.


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    #68
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by groveChuck View Post
    Abe has the fire photos well covered, but here's one I thought was especially powerful- the sort of static, still image that just sinks in...
    Attachment 140514

    And Abe, you didn't say anything about the photos being current, so here's one that's almost exactly 20yrs old, but still oh so relevant...

    2000 Florida presidential election recount.
    Bush v Gore.
    "Hanging Chads"
    Attachment 140515
    Alan Diaz/AP

    I was standing about 3ft to the left of Diaz, and got the magnifying glass and ballot, but the eye didn't line up perfectly like his.

    Diaz also got the famous photo (after embedding in the family's house for a week) of young cuban rafter refugee Elian Gonzalez being taken by INS agents.
    Attachment 140516

    I was there for this one too, though outside at the fence at the edge of the front yard.

    Just another day in Miami...

    These are incredible! Such sad moments really, but even without the captions, I basically know exactly what is happening. The emotional impact is there too. And they get me very curious to read about their back story.

    The juxtaposition of elements within the frame.

    - school desk in ashes
    - the humorous magnification of the eyeball with the serious functionality of a punch card, in this case ballot. A serious endeavor made embarrassingly humorous by the debacle of the vote count.
    - and a gun pointing military or law enforcement figure in a home reaching for a man holding a child


    the third one has the contextual space of being in what looks like a bedroom, and the expressions and actions do most of the explaining. Of course the finer details, such as who they are and why this is happening are still unclear unless you learn more, but this would be a very different photo if this were in an open field, or a factory, or in a black void. The fact that they are in a home makes the gun pointing officer seem like an intruder, rather than a saviour. I don't remember the specifics of what happened bt I do recall it causing people in the US to question the sanctity of families. But regardless of whether this photo tells the truth or not, it is saying a lot. Enough to effect the public perception on its own.


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    #69
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James0b57 View Post
    Most of these photos slightly dehumanize the figure.
    I actually disagree completely with this statement. I think it's only true of the pointing hand in front of the face where the hand also melds with the face in a flattened form, which I thought was a terrific photo although not perfectly framed within the background. And even that photo communicates a tremendous amount of expression/emotion from Trump. Which is humanizing, not dehumanizing.

    "journalistic importance" - I mean, these shots are there to illustrate a person who we all know well. We don't need to be reminded of what he looks like. They're trying to evoke an emotion and not just communicate information. I would never post an image in this thread that just communicates information. Who cares.

    I think the journalists who cover him typically try to get 3 types of shots - negative, neutral, and positive. And then the shots will be chosen based on whether the story is about him winning or losing, or something in-between.

    A couple of the shots are flatly negative (like the dutch with him pursing his lips in the corner). Most I think can be interpreted however the viewer sees fit. For example, the lightning shot was interpreted positively by supporters and negatively by opponents. There is a beautiful shot of out of focus leaves behind him and him looking down sort of somberly. I actually think that was a very flattering shot because he looked serious and pensive and the photo was just gorgeous. I think the headline was negative, some uproar about something he said. Similarly, this shot of him walking away - you could read it literally as "a man turning his back on you," or you can read the body language as a man being put upon.

    The extreme close-up was really more about what he saw in his eyes, the reflections there. It was definitely an unflattering shot (who wants to be shot that close). But it reminded me of the beginning of blade runner - like looking through someone else's eyes, or the sort of power connoted to the subject of the photo as we see them seeing.

    A lot of these photos could have been taken anywhere at any time, certainly the shot of him walking away. That's not what matters. I liked the shot of him walking away because of the plain green background, almost like a painting. The poise in his suspended step and arms. The perfect centering and sort of symmetry. And the way that his face is completely turned except one ear - leaving it a mystery what he is thinking.

    In my opinion, the best photojournalistic shots have little to do with capturing something newsworthy and more to do with coming from the right angle and placing the subject in the right place against the right background. Seasoned photojournalists I've observed capture a tremendous number of minutely different compositions of the "same shot".


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    #70
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James0b57 View Post
    These are incredible! Such sad moments really, but even without the captions, I basically know exactly what is happening. The emotional impact is there too. And they get me very curious to read about their back story.

    The juxtaposition of elements within the frame.

    - school desk in ashes
    - the humorous magnification of the eyeball with the serious functionality of a punch card, in this case ballot. A serious endeavor made embarrassingly humorous by the debacle of the vote count.
    - and a gun pointing military or law enforcement figure in a home reaching for a man holding a child


    the third one has the contextual space of being in what looks like a bedroom, and the expressions and actions do most of the explaining. Of course the finer details, such as who they are and why this is happening are still unclear unless you learn more, but this would be a very different photo if this were in an open field, or a factory, or in a black void. The fact that they are in a home makes the gun pointing officer seem like an intruder, rather than a saviour. I don't remember the specifics of what happened bt I do recall it causing people in the US to question the sanctity of families. But regardless of whether this photo tells the truth or not, it is saying a lot. Enough to effect the public perception on its own.
    I think the other 2 shots are beautiful but I think the Elian Gonzalez photo is pretty ugly. The tension and emotion in the man and the child are interesting. But it's a pretty dull photo. I don't mean that as a critique of the photographer at all.

    You'll probably say that that's not the point of the photograph. Well, of course not. But that's the point of this thread.


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