Page 49 of 118 FirstFirst ... 394546474849505152535999 ... LastLast
Results 481 to 490 of 1171
  1. Collapse Details
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,048
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
    That could not possibly be true. You would only have the potential for 12 true stops of DR. The specs seem to infer 14 bit ADC, 16 bit data. This makes sense because HDMI doesn't support 14 bit.
    Hmm i suppose you're right


    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
    Senior Member Tom Roper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    1,243
    Default
    Yes, and dithering is something done to just one bit, so if it really was 12 bit dithered to 16, it would just be (LSB+3), the others truncated zeros.


    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    I'm hearing that the A7S3 only does a 12-bit adc raw readout and then dithers it up to 16-bit before outputting it. Also:

    "4K 24-60P and 4K 120P have almost the same level of sharpness and detail. And 1080P is not supersampled, but pixel-binned from 24-60P and line-skipped from 100-240P."

    None of this info impacts my preorder. Just passing it on
    From the tests I've seen other than the slight crop at 120p, detail in all 4k modes is pretty much indistinguishable. Its just a hair less sharp than the a73 and the 60/120 is more detailed than the R5. Gordon Liang posted a SOOC Slog3 shot, gonna tinker with that. Hopefully more footage surfaces soon.

    Chris


    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Inland Northwest
    Posts
    13,868
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Trek of Joy View Post
    Gordon Liang posted a SOOC Slog3 shot, gonna tinker with that. Hopefully more footage surfaces soon.

    Chris
    Do you have a link to Laing's SOOC Slog3 video sample. Can't find at any of his web sites, or Flickr.

    Thanks.
    David S.



    Accept No Imitations.
    www.dvxuser.com | www.reduser.net | www.scarletuser.com | www.dvxfest.com
    and...
    www.BMCuser.com - The Online Community for Blackmagic Camera users.
    Filmmaking Communities powered by Landmine Media, Inc.


    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,048
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by David Saraceno View Post
    Do you have a link to Laing's SOOC Slog3 video sample. Can't find at any of his web sites, or Flickr.

    Thanks.
    https://vimeo.com/443085253


    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Inland Northwest
    Posts
    13,868
    Default
    thanks
    David S.



    Accept No Imitations.
    www.dvxuser.com | www.reduser.net | www.scarletuser.com | www.dvxfest.com
    and...
    www.BMCuser.com - The Online Community for Blackmagic Camera users.
    Filmmaking Communities powered by Landmine Media, Inc.


    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
    Default
    Edited, to make a short version. Don't worry about 16 Bits on the A7SIII.

    Now the long version.

    I'm not 100% sure but I wouldn't worry to much about the 16 bits vs 14 bits. If you look at it from the stills perspective, even on medium format cameras, there have been discussions about how valuable the 16 bits are vs 14 bits. No CMOS sensor that's readily available that I'm aware of even if you look at a PhaseOne, GFX100 or on the video side of things like the Alexa 65, will give you 16 stops of clean noise free dynamic range. At a certain point the ADC converter's bit depth is exceeding what the CMOS can capture and you are basically just getting more steps or a more accurate readout of noise without that much benefit to signal. Some people argue the difference between 14 and 16 bits is huge and other's will say they can't see the difference just a bloated file. Either way I doubt it would make much difference on the A7SIII. I believe there was some drama not with the 150mp IQ4 or 102 mp GFX 100 but with the Hasselblad X1D and the GFX 50s/r. They are both using the same sesnsor and apparently both doing 14 bit readouts but for some reason Hasselblad chose to to still process/write in 16 bits and Fujifilm stuck with 14 bits. People argued the merits of the "phantom" bits between X1D and GFX 50. I think Hasselblad chose 16 bit files just to stay in line with there higher end cameras. It's not until you reach PhaseOne or Alexa levels of dynamic where 16 bit files even really matters. In terms of dynamic range the GFX 100 sits north of the X1D/pentax/gfx 50 type cameras but south of the PhaseOne so I think any benefit that you might get on the GFX 100 16 bit files over the 14 bit files certainly aren't huge. Probably the type of differences where you have to go hunting for them or someone would need to point out to you.
    Last edited by Carlos Morillo; 07-30-2020 at 03:55 PM.


    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    Cheers man, forgot to put the link in my comment.

    Chris


    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Morillo View Post
    Edited, to make a short version. Don't worry about 16 Bits on the A7SIII.

    Now the long version.

    I'm not 100% sure but I wouldn't worry to much about the 16 bits vs 14 bits. If you look at it from the stills perspective, even on medium format cameras, there have been discussions about how valuable the 16 bits are vs 14 bits. No CMOS sensor that's readily available that I'm aware of even if you look at a PhaseOne, GFX100 or on the video side of things like the Alexa 65, will give you 16 stops of clean noise free dynamic range. At a certain point the ADC converter's bit depth is exceeding what the CMOS can capture and you are basically just getting more steps or a more accurate readout of noise without that much benefit to signal. Some people argue the difference between 14 and 16 bits is huge and other's will say they can't see the difference just a bloated file. Either way I doubt it would make much difference on the A7SIII. I believe there was some drama not with the 150mp IQ4 or 102 mp GFX 100 but with the Hasselblad X1D and the GFX 50s/r. They are both using the same sesnsor and apparently both doing 14 bit readouts but for some reason Hasselblad chose to to still process/write in 16 bits and Fujifilm stuck with 14 bits. People argued the merits of the "phantom" bits between X1D and GFX 50. I think Hasselblad chose 16 bit files just to stay in line with there higher end cameras. It's not until you reach PhaseOne or Alexa levels of dynamic where 16 bit files even really matters. In terms of dynamic range the GFX 100 sits north of the X1D/pentax/gfx 50 type cameras but south of the PhaseOne so I think any benefit that you might get on the GFX 100 16 bit files over the 14 bit files certainly aren't huge. Probably the type of differences where you have to go hunting for them or someone would need to point out to you.
    As far as I know, size of value for each colour (be it 8bit,12bit or 16bit) in independent of dynamic range. However, it follows that for any given dynamic range to be fully effective - that is - both in the shadows and in the highlights in the same frame - there must be enough precision to hold a meaningful value from black all the way to white. An example being SLOG3 recorded in 8bits on previous Sony cameras (not the A7SIII) - you did have the dynamic range but no way to record the sensor pixel's value accurately enough - resulting in banding and other artifacts.

    On a seperate note, it looks like Canon are nervous about the R5 and R6 and might either recall them or make some last minute modification to combat the severe heat problems.

    https://www.eoshd.com/news/will-cano...28EOSHD.com%29


    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
    Senior Member joema's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    126
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by tull_power View Post
    As far as I know, size of value for each colour (be it 8bit,12bit or 16bit) in independent of dynamic range. However, it follows that for any given dynamic range to be fully effective - that is - both in the shadows and in the highlights in the same frame - there must be enough precision to hold a meaningful value from black all the way to white...
    Thank you for pointing that out. I constantly hear supposedly-knowledgeable people equate bit depth with dynamic range. It's just not correct. There is a *loose* correlation because traditionally an expensive high-bit-depth cinema camera would generally be designed with a sensor having better dynamic range. But the bit depth doesn't *cause* the dynamic range, and (as you pointed out) doesn't even *enable* dynamic range. You could theoretically design an 8-bit sensor and processing path which had 16 stops of dynamic range, but there's no reason to do that.

    Right now on the Arri Alexa web site, they have downloadable ProRes sample footage, some of which is only 10 bit. Those cameras will also shoot internally 12-bit ProRes 4444XQ or 12-bit log-encoded uncompressed ARRIRAW. That camera has great dynamic range and beautiful roll-off, but to my knowledge it's "only" 12 bits per color channel.

    We think the Ninja V will also record 12-bit log-encoded ProRes RAW from the A7SIII, which might send the raw data as 16 bit, possibly with lower bits zero'd out due to issues with HDMI standardization, encoder ASIC, etc. Therefore I don't see why all the concern on some forums about whether it's 12, 14 or 16 bits. I wonder of some of that is coming from photographic people who are familiar with 14-bit raw stills and think somehow 12 bit raw video is a downgrade.

    What would be really cool is if mirrorless cameras could sustainably record 14-bit raw stills at 24 fps. They are probably just one generation from doing that.


    Reply With Quote
     

Page 49 of 118 FirstFirst ... 394546474849505152535999 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •