Thread: The New Display

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    #21
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    LG OLED C11, fingers crossed.


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    #22
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    Looks like TV logic has an interesting LUT box. IS Mini X and the IS mini 4K. Both are relatively affordable, and they offer HDMI 2.0 so they can be paired with just about any monitor or TV, should you have to travel light. I am already slipping down the slope of spending money on gear another professional likely has already. But figured I'd mention it.

    Looks like it used to have a Fujifilm branding. maybe TV logic bought it off them.

    Flanders has an I/O box for around the same price, but is SDI only, it seems. Will have to double check that.
    Last edited by James0b57; 05-29-2020 at 02:12 PM.


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    #23
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    Last week BH did the refund, so I am about to get the Eizo, but Eizo is now doing a good job of upselling me on the CG2420.

    CG2420 over the CS2420:
    - 3 minutes to color stability. the CS takes 30minutes
    - better contrast 1500:1 vs 1000:1
    - better screen surface and matte texture
    - better off axis colour consistency using a retardation film, or something.
    - HDR input simulator (CS doesn't have this)

    ...and the $300 worth of add-ons I don't need....
    - comes with the $190 hood (was going to build my own, but if everything else is better, I might as well...)
    - comes with a built in probe (I don't need this but can see it come in handy, if I didn't have a probe already, than this would actually be appealing)
    - thinner bezel
    - better resale value??? should something happen.

    That said, every hundred dollars I spend on an Eizo is taking away from a good production monitor, so I have been looking at options for a monitor that could be used in my home stdio when building LUTs and then having a cheaper GUI monitor. Been looking at TV logic and Flanders Scientific. May have to go visit the TV logic people after some of this lock down lifts up. going to look at options and then purchase hopefully next week. That return process took a month, and I am no longer in a rush now.
    Last edited by James0b57; 05-31-2020 at 09:55 PM.


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    #24
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    Well, the whole BH return taking so long, by the time I got the refund, I was already thinking more about adapting my production package to Covid safety protocols. So, was distracted from the post workflow stuff for a bit.

    Earlier this week I was about to pull the trigger on a CS2420, but the sales guy was kind enough to patch me through to an Eizo rep, and..... yeah, they made it seem like I'd like the CG better. Though, they conceded that because I already owned an Xrite i1 Pro probe, that they understood the savings, as a CS is nearly half the price of a CG.

    Contrast is the one they mention the most, and while I am not convinced it is necessary for rec709, I know how much I love plasma and OLED screens.

    To put the contrast ratios into perspective. A 2019 Apple iMac has a real world contrast ration of 1000:1 roughly. The EIZO's apply a screen uniformity application called DUE, and it lowers their contrast slightly, but not as much as other brands. Some brands may lose half their contrast ratio to screen uniformity.

    Contrast ratios
    2019 iMac 1000:1 (reviewed as an accurate number, by more than one reviewer)
    CG240 with DUE turned on 1300:1 to 1400:1
    CS2420 with DUE turned on 800:1 (some say 900:1, so potentially only marginally different from the 2019 iMac)

    You can turn off DUE and get the 1000:1 contrast ratio on the CS models, putting the apparent contrast in the realm of the iMac.

    With the Benq sw270C, there was a weird haze. The screen was very lovely contrast, but there were some odd grayed zones, that I am assuming were from aggressive attempts to make the screen more uniform? Maybe it was just the IPS was messed up. The one corner was pretty annoying. But the inherent contrast of that monitor looked close to an iMac, just less finesse. Right not I am looking at a laptop screen that has similar grayed out areas.

    Part of the reason EIZO screens lose less contrast when their screen uniformity application is applied, is because they. tend to have better screens to begin with and they require less averaging to correct for uniformity.

    At this point, even though I am pretty sold on wanting the CG, I am just curious to see if the CS is a noticeable improvement from the Benq. Part of me wants to just get both Eizo's now. Will call tomorrow and make the move.

    @say_doyster, did you end up buying a monitor yet? Sorry I got so derailed with this process, wish I had been of more timely help.
    Last edited by James0b57; 06-19-2020 at 02:48 AM.


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    #25
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    The thing not mentioned, is that for Apple OS users, the CG2420 can do DCI-P3 better possibly.

    So, options:

    Primarily field use:
    FSI AM210 for field use primarily and then used as a rec709 reference at home. Has HD-SDI BNC and a plethora of monitor tools and scopes built in.
    ~$2000

    The all rounder:
    CG2420 for above average accuracy and contrast. Occasional DIT, perhaps in a studio situation? Provides a nice small footprint, and a one and done sort of peace of mind, till HDR becomes more accessible.
    ~$1500

    Ultra low Budget "Colorist" setup:
    CS2420 for getting by with accurate rec709, and then getting a 48" LG OLED when they go on sale.
    ~$850 to start, and then an additional ~$1,200 later.
    Last edited by James0b57; 06-19-2020 at 03:02 AM.


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    #26
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    Hey James0b57,

    Am on the fence at the moment as I don't have an immediate pressing need. You have essentially found what I found in autumn last year (did not know about the CG Eizo's and was leaning towards the BenQ) but when my need lapsed (had to buy an iMac cause the main computer was getting so old and was no longer able to run FCPX properly) and that ate the budget for a new separate monitor. I fear we are caught in a wasteland of old tech in the pro/prosumer arena waiting to be overtaken by all the bell and whistle advances on the consumer side at a price way less than what top end pro gear costs. I don't think any of the consumer tv/monitors are quite there yet, but my 3 year old 65" Samsung (pre HDR10) does look great even if it is not all that color and contrast accurate. Big believer in trying to buy the right tool for the job, so that often is higher (usually much higher) cost than entry the level product. And really good - even "perfection" requires truly deep pockets. And my customers likely would not be able to tell the difference.


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    #27
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    Ok, that makes sense. An iMac is what a lot of budget users use. To be honest, I didn't feel confident with the Benq SW270C, because even after calibrating, it just didn't feel right. So, I'd be hard pressed to go that route again.


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    #28
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    I'll say in the last two decades of trying to research and find the best gear at the best prices..... two things have always been true.

    1. The tool that everyone says is the best? Yeah, it's the best. You're not going to easily get around that.

    Yeah, technology like the DVX100 comes along and it changes things. But there are always those that hope some other camera is better that saves them some money, or makes them feel unique. That isn't to say that more expensive gear is important, but if you want something, like an accurate colour grading monitor... you really aren't going to get that unless you get an accurate monitor. Or if you want the highlights and skin tone of film... not going to be able to fake it with a GH4. So, if you have to choose that one thing, get that one thing. Because obviously it is not possible to get the best of everything. You need a natural sounding microphone? Get a Schoeps. You need a microphone that can isolate get a Sunken CS3e. Need a bullet proof mic, get an MKH. But if you just need a mic, you are one of the lucky ones, because AT, Rhode, and AKG all have cheap options that get the job done. And lord help you if you need all of those options. The monitor world is proving to be exactly the same. There is no DVX100, 5Dmk2, or Komodo for the accurate colour grading world right now. Nothing that is sweeping across the post world that is upsetting the colouring world. So, if you want a budget monitor for grading, it is still the Eizo and NEC is the entry level to anything professional grade. There is 't some best kept secret alternative. One can waste a lot of time looking for answers, when the obvious answer is already the correct one. And you have to get the tool to get the job done in an efficient manner.

    2. The best tools are the ones you have. At some point you have to find a way to trust the gear you have, and making that work. It would be nice to buy the best one thing all the time. And yeah, you have to buy the tool, and even the cheap ones are expensive added up. But you can do without a lot. You can get by with a lot less then you think. It would be nice to have every tool and socket wrench, but if you are just getting by, it is amazing what a few simple tools can do with ingenuity and understanding, vs a whole garage of tools and fear.

    There really aren't many monitors that are good for colour grading and field use. Kind of defeats the purpose. One ends up being viewed in all sorts of weird lighting situations. The other in a controlled environment.

    I can help but think how I would love to have a Flanders Scientific AM210, since it could double as a field monitor, but it is triple the cost of a Eizo CS2420, while delivering similar image quality. The FSI monitor does get professionally calibrated, and the Eizo would have to rely on my limited skills and tools for calibration. So, there is that.

    Monitors for a camera person include:
    the "7inch" on camera monitor
    the 17-24" field monitor
    the 24-32" studio post monitor

    All of them are around $1000 and up for a good one. And just not in the budget to have them all, or have them all be good.

    The one camera high bright is essential to a camera person. Feels weird to spend $2000 on a Red Monitor or SmallHD, and only consider spending $900 for a monitor for post.

    The field monitor is totally rentable. However, when I start getting into the $1500 range with the EIZO CG2420, I begin thinking, why not spend a little more and get an accurate field monitor that will stay at home mostly, but I can rent out and offset the cost when going into the field with it. Directors and producers always opt to pay for the monitor. It is for them, so the price always sounds cheap.

    The post monitor rabbit hole as to eventually stop. real easy to see how spending a little more gets a little more. But I am a field person in my. paid work, and I still have things I have to by for field work, especially now that Covid jobs are asking me to be more self sufficient in little ways, like idk, I went out and bough a little Mixpre3 so I could do interviews with the RED. But that little Mixpre3ii was about the same price as a Eizo CS2420! Amazing how much I just don't think about dropping $2500 on a Teradek and monitor either. So, there is $3K already that I could have put into an amazing colouring monitor. But the studio/post monitor I can't charge for. It is just the thing that makes me a better shooter, and that is all less direct of a correlation to making money. But consider all my gigs are falling through lately, I am kind of wishing I just go the monitor, haha. Not getting to really look at the footage these last couple months has been liberating AND maddening. The whole idea of capturing images is to be able to see and appreciate them! ha! So, a whole lot of irony going on. And I just have to work with what I have.
    Last edited by James0b57; 06-24-2020 at 10:18 PM.


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    #29
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    Current plan is to get a CG2420 and paint the room that I will be coloring in to something very neutral.

    I'll try to demo the CS2420, just because I am curious to see if it is better than the Benq SW270c at nearly the same price. Chances are the Benq will eventually go on sale, and become a viable option to many, but this thread is not about the best bang for buck, but about finding the cheapest monitor that is also actually accurate enough to help in analyzing images from the camera.


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    #30
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    updated first saved space up top. Just noticed a way to categorize monitors in price range and quality in a way that might better quantify specs and cost differences. Like what is a 1000:1 8bit 1080p FSI almost three times the cost of comparable computer monitors? And why should one choose a CG2420 over a CS2420? Many seem to think that if you don't have a good neutral and low lit room, there is little benefit to the CG2420 of the CS.

    I'll admit, when I started this thread, those place holders up top were meant more for being reviews of the CS2420 after I got it. But as you can see, with the BH return process taking a month and a half, and me needing to adapt to post Covid filming procedures, that all went out the window. And this thread has gone on a long meandering thought process instead of being a review.


    Updated post:
    http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...post1986823590
    Last edited by James0b57; 06-30-2020 at 10:05 PM.


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