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    Dark Side of the Camera Postmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary T View Post

    One of the things that many scientist find so worrisome about the out of control COVID-19 pandemic is SARS-CoV-2 is still mutating ..
    Of course it does - evolution at work.
    A virus doesn't want to kill its host - cause that is pretty much counterproductive if you want max spread - the ideal virus spreads, without the host noticing anything.
    The best viruses manage to not even wake up/alert the Immunsystem. So you can get (and spread) some of the common cold corona viruses, but no running nose or coughing, fewer or anything.
    They are super adapted - the final goal of any virus.


    Nature always finds a way :-)
    If you ever looked into the inner workings of a cell, what the mitochondria does and how the other parts work together,
    and how it is all basically electric (charge and voltage) not chemistry, you stand in awe before nature, and wonder how this is all even possible.


    What I find much more fascinating is, how does a dumb lifeless chunks of RNA even do this (obviously we still don't know nothing how "life" actually works), and why do they exist in the first place.
    What is the evolutionary reason/goal for those things?
    Last edited by Postmaster; 09-24-2020 at 03:44 AM.
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    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postmaster View Post
    What I find much more fascinating is, how does a dumb lifeless chunks of RNA even do this (obviously we still don't know nothing how "life" actually works), and why do they exist in the first place.
    What is the evolutionary reason/goal for those things?
    There's no reason for any of it, or for us. Life exists because it was created by chance and then the life that was most inclined to and adept at survival and reproduction continued to survive and procreate.

    Btw this is the best ever illustration of evolution that I've ever seen (about the evolution of the eye, no less!) From Cosmos on Netflix:



    But I opened this thread to say that "UK Covid-19 vaccine trial set to infect healthy volunteers with virus"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ers-with-virus
    Last edited by ahalpert; 09-25-2020 at 04:36 PM.


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    interesting article on how Sweden is currently faring better than other European countries: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-19-experience

    The two takeaways for me are having a sustainable approach that can be kept up for months on end. And the second is that the Swedes were largely voluntarily compliant with recommended restrictions due to a high level of trust in government, such that mandates were unnecessary.

    On the flipside, they lost a ton of elderly people, and infections have started to rise a bit although not at the rate of their neighbors yet.

    "Unlike many countries, Sweden closed colleges and universities for the over-16s, but kept schools for younger pupils open. The country also banned gatherings of more than 50 people, and urged those over 70 and in at-risk groups to self-isolate.


    Otherwise, the country’s 10 million people were asked, not ordered, to respect physical distancing and work from home if possible, which most did. Shops, bars, restaurants and gyms stayed open; masks have not been recommended.

    The chief epidemiologist, Anders Tegnell, has insisted the aim was not to achieve rapid herd immunity, but to slow the spread enough for health services to cope. The crisis was “a marathon, not a sprint”, he has repeatedly said, arguing Sweden’s approach may prove more sustainable than lockdowns."

    "“Many people think that because Sweden did not lock down, the government did nothing,” he said. “In fact it took several key measures. But mainly, it managed to make citizens understand and participate in the fight against the virus, without coercion, mandatory laws or regulations. The effect was not very different.”

    David Heymann, a professor of infectious disease epidemiology in London who chairs a WHO advisory group, said countries “must face the fact that we are going to have to live with this virus, which is on the way to becoming endemic”.

    That would largely involve “making responsible populations understand how to protect themselves and protect others”, as well as containing outbreaks as they occurr through prompt and efficient contact tracing, Heymann said.

    Nitzan stressed that Sweden’s approach may not be applicable everywhere. Other countries should take into account that “in Sweden, the social contract between the government and its population is historically based on a very high level of trust”, she said. “That is the way the Swedish people and the government interact.”"


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    This is such a bummer. Positivity rate in NYC is rising just as schools are opening and indoor dining will recommence. It may be in part due to spikes in the Orthodox Jewish community who have been observing high holidays lately (crowded indoors with poor ventilation and hours of loud chanting), and supposedly those communities are largely unmasked. I doubt they are large enough communities even in NYC to account for the entirety of the uptick. But they could partly seed the new outbreak.

    It's probably also due to relaxation of precautions. I talked to a well-heeled client recently who said that her husband and her dined with friends and went maskless for the first time together. She reasoned that if a 2nd wave is coming that will force another lockdown, they might as well take their liberties now. self-fulfilling prophecy?

    What were you saying about herd immunity, mcbob? (And nationally speaking, a recent study showed that less than 10% of americans have had covid.)

    "New York City's coronavirus positivity rate has ticked up to 3.25%, its highest since June, Mayor Bill de Blasio said at a news conference on Tuesday.

    Why it matters: The jump — from 1.93% on Monday — came on the first day that public elementary classrooms reopened in the city after months of closures, but guidelines state that all public schools will have to shut if the citywide seven-day positivity rate stays above 3%.

    It also comes as New York will attempt to reintroduce indoor dining in a limited capacity this week."

    https://www.axios.com/new-york-city-...dcb98f9de.html

    update: "In an effort to tackle the uptick, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio (D) said anyone not wearing a mask while out in public will be provided one, and anyone who refuses to comply will face a fine"
    Last edited by ahalpert; 09-29-2020 at 02:16 PM.


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    An interesting factor is the household occupancy rate. Sweden has a very high single-occupant household rate.

    Sweden - An amazing 43% of households have an occupancy of one. No wonder they are so happy.
    Japan - 35%
    US - 28%


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    "Scientists are racing to learn more about the damage the novel coronavirus can do to the heart, lungs and brain.

    Why it matters: It’s becoming increasingly clear that some patients struggle with its health consequences — and costs — far longer than a few weeks.

    The big picture: The virus can have a severe impact on the lungs, as you might expect. Pneumonia associated with the disease can damage air sacs in the lungs, and the resulting scar tissue can cause long-term breathing problems.

    But researchers conducting autopsies have also found evidence of the virus in parts of the brain, kidneys, gastrointestinal tract and in the cells that line blood vessels, the Washington Post has reported. They’ve also found clotting in many organs."

    https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-or...80652e288.html


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    "90 percent of coronavirus patients experience side effects after recovery, study finds
    An online survey of 965 recovered COVID-19 patients found 9 in 10 reported experiencing symptoms such as fatigue, loss of taste and smell and psychological issues."

    https://thehill.com/changing-america...xperience-side

    The couple people I know who recovered from covid didnt recover their sense of smell/taste for months afterward and may still not have for all I know.


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    This animated map shows something I haven't seen reported by anyone. It shows cases/100,000 by county across the country. Most reports are more interested in total case load for a given area. Sure, that's a meaningful number, but it misleads us to think that big metropolitan areas are the ones doing the big spreading when in fact, something else is happening. It would only seem logical that densely populated areas would be the ones with the higher case/100,000 people. But that is not the case.

    Take a look at this animation. Note that some metropolitan areas you might think would go red early, don't go red. Also note how the rural south and later, the very low densely populated mid-north are the ones that go almost completely red. That's something we're not told about nor would most of us guess that is what is happening.

    Watch Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle - the cities that were in the news, especially in the early months. They never went red (LA does, but not till August).

    Most interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqfa...ature=emb_logo


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    I guess that shows even if you have a high infection rate in a given state with a lot of space, fresh air, and an outdoor culture, you're better off than a tightly-packed indoor sedentary culture (where they may or may not murderously place covid patients into nursing homes). Looks like the Dakotas have some of the highest cases-per-million in the nation, yet some of the lowest fatalities and least onerous lockdowns.

    Consider... the state of Connecticut has a similar sized population to Iowa, or twice the population of ND/SD combined. It has half the infection rate per million of either IA or ND+SD, yet 3-4x the deaths per million of any of those states and nearly twice the unemployment rate (as of August). data per worldometers and BLS.org
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