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    Senior Member Batutta's Avatar
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    My brother in law is a Pulmonologist working the front lines of the Covid ward at Kaiser Permanente in Los Angeles. Believe me, he's sufficiently freaked out.
    "Money doesn't make films...You just do it and take the initiative." - Werner Herzog


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    U-matic Member groveChuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbob View Post
    We're seeing that there's very limited risk to people younger than ~55.
    What about asymptomatic transmission from older children?

    Older Children Spread the Coronavirus Just as Much as Adults, Large Study Finds
    The study of nearly 65,000 people in South Korea suggests that school reopenings will trigger more outbreaks.


    In the heated debate over reopening schools, one burning question has been whether and how efficiently children can spread the virus to others.

    A large new study from South Korea offers an answer: Children younger than 10 transmit to others much less often than adults do, but the risk is not zero.
    And those between the ages of 10 and 19 can spread the virus at least as well as adults do. The findings suggest that as schools reopen, communities will see clusters of infection take root that include children of all ages, several experts cautioned.

    “I fear that there has been this sense that kids just won’t get infected or don’t get infected in the same way as adults and that, therefore, they’re almost like a bubbled population,” said Michael Osterholm, an infectious diseases expert at the University of Minnesota.


    “There will be transmission,” Dr. Osterholm said. “What we have to do is accept that now and include that in our plans.”

    Several studies from Europe and Asia have suggested that young children are less likely to get infected and to spread the virus.
    But most of those studies were small and flawed, said Dr. Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute.

    The new study “is very carefully done, it’s systematic and looks at a very large population,” Dr. Jha said. “It’s one of the best studies we’ve had to date on this issue.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/h...n-schools.html


     

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    U-matic Member groveChuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbob View Post
    quite honestly, that's not a new phenomenon.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...w-doctors-work
    Of course it's not new- the study and stats of high suicide rates are well known.

    But there's undoubtedly been a spike in the times of Covid:

    "The medical field is at a crisis. This pandemic has exposed many cracks in the U.S. healthcare system. From inadequate testing and personal protective equipment (PPE) to overcrowded emergency departments, frontline health staff are putting their lives at risk to care for highly infectious patients debilitated by Covid-19. And yet medical professionals are responding to this crisis with unprecedented selflessness, resilience and compassion.

    “For many physicians, Covid-19 may be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel’s back as they isolate themselves physically from their family and friends while encountering a surge of sickness and death,” said Nisha Mehta, MD, radiologist, physician advocate and keynote speaker.

    Here are a few real-world examples. About a month into the pandemic, at the end of a difficult shift, an infectious disease physician with 20 years of experience, texted me the following: “Just admitted a 28yo pregnant woman in 2nd trimester w COVID. About to get intubated. I hate these days.” Two weeks later, this same physician texted: “I just started sobbing. I mean, bawling. But in the bathroom so my 6yo wouldn’t see.”"

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/lipiroy.../#3e204800213c


     

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    Meant to post this a few days ago...

    I think WWE now has the most "real-life" virtual experience with hundreds of LED screens.

    I joked about this months ago...can't believe they did it.

    WWE.jpg


     

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    I forgot what game it was - the UEFA Champions and the Europa Leagues have finished concurrently last Saturday and Sunday - but some player (Marquinos?) scored a goal, then jumped into the stands and hugged a cardboard cutout. Had this been in Miami, the cutout would have undoubtedly been connected to a stripper pole.


     

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    U-matic Member groveChuck's Avatar
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    Yeah, but then he'd have to slip the cutout a tip...


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorBro View Post
    Meant to post this a few days ago...

    I think WWE now has the most "real-life" virtual experience with hundreds of LED screens.

    I joked about this months ago...can't believe they did it.

    WWE.jpg
    The Masked Singer tried that, and so did the Democratic Convention. Sucked pretty bad both times. I'm away from the TV for a while so I haven't seen the WWE implementation... Does it actually enhance the home viewer's experience?


     

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    I remember you mentioning TMS when I brought this up months ago, but I don't think they had this many?

    Overall, it's alright. The live sound design really helps a lot. They are mixing and trying their best to change it up to get the brain in a cognitive flow.

    For months they just had 10-15 people (random wrestlers in training) cheering and booing and banging on the plexiglass that surrounded the entrance ramp, but I disliked it.

    This move/creation with the "ThunderDome" in the Amway Center also brought back pyro which was always a huge part of the show until they cut it years ago to save money (which had a major negative reaction).

    At the end of the day, they are trying to survive like everyone else.

    ___

    Here's a breakdown of their setup(s):

    "In order to deliver the ThunderDome activation, WWE rolled in an additional six tractor trailers full of LED and projection equipment. A total of 16,296,488 LED pixels were added for Thunderdome, including 1458 7mm 600x600mm tiles in seats of arena ((9,331,200 pixels) and 480 7mm 600600 tiles in Thunderdome truss above ring (3,072,000 pixels). Three 30k projectors cover the ring and 32 20k projectorsfor the Thunderdome (16 live and 16 hot back up). Video screen processing is handled by 32 Nova pro processors (16 live and 16 hot back up), six Nova VX4 processors (3 live and 3 hot back up), 12 CVT’s, and required 2500’ Tac 12 fiber (3 @ 500’ and 1 @ 1000’) and 2500‘ Of Cat 6 ethernet cable.

    In addition to WWE’s “normal” touring set (21 production trucks), the Amway Center setup required eight more truck loads of rigging and truss, seven trucks of video product, five trucks of lighting equipment, and one truck of pyrotechnics and special effects. Also brought in to serve the Thunderdome are 32 projectors lining the floor to project onto a fabric “ceiling” that is approx. 100ft in diameter and sits 47ft from the ground, as well as 100+ lasers, and 6100+ pieces of pyro technics."

    https://www.sportsvideo.org/2020/08/...ng-experience/


     

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    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbob View Post
    Meanwhile, in globally-lambasted Sweden...

    Attachment 140245
    Sweden covid deaths: 570.55 deaths per million
    Neighboring Norway: 49.68
    (Statista.com)

    Sweden economic contraction: -8.6% GDP in Q2
    Norway: -7.1% in Q2
    (Business Insider)

    Look at all the money they made by letting all those people die!

    PS:
    Sweden’s pandemic no longer stands out
    The country has tougher restrictions in place than in France or Austria and new infections have plunged
    From Financial Times, August 8: https://www.ft.com/content/7acfc5b8-...6-b70dc850428f
    Last edited by ahalpert; 08-24-2020 at 10:30 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbob View Post
    Because everybody likes data unless it doesn't support their preconceptions, here's some related to our actual risk and our actual costs, and hinting at how (maybe) you can (slightly) profit.

    https://www.franklintempletonnordic....8dlZ4-4mgyx6BA

    I personally am not that worried about dying and I think most people who fit in a younger are bracket are not as well - but it is real possibility. I am worried about spreading it to those who are in that high risk group, though. I do not want to cause someone to die - including family members - because I was an asymptomatic carrier.

    What I am most scared about for me is the long-term complications and chronic illness that can happen to those that survive that we don't even know the full implications of.


    https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/d...s-of-covid-19/:

    "We're really seeing a number of reports of people who report long-term fatigue, headaches, vertigo (and), interestingly enough, difficulties with cognition, hair loss, cardiac issues, and diminished cardiorespiratory fitness. And I think what we're going to find out is that a large portion ― not all, but a large portion of that ― is likely to relate to the significant cellular-level damage that this virus can cause," says Dr. Poland.

    Some of the possible long-term effects can affect even patients who are asymptomatic or have mild cases of COVID-19.

    "I think it's an argument for why we take this disease so seriously," says Dr. Poland. "People who are thinking, especially young people: '(It's a) mild disease, you know. I might not even have any symptoms, and I'm over it.' Whoa. The data is suggesting otherwise. There's evidence of myocardial damage, cardiomyopathy, arrhythmias, decreased ejection fractions, pulmonary scarring and strokes.



    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...arm-scientists :

    “Everybody talks about a binary situation, you either get it mild and recover quickly, or you get really sick and wind up in the ICU,” says Akrami, who falls into neither category. Thousands echo her story in online COVID-19 support groups. Outpatient clinics for survivors are springing up, and some are already overburdened. Akrami has been waiting more than 4 weeks to be seen at one of them, despite a referral from her general practitioner.

    The list of lingering maladies from COVID-19 is longer and more varied than most doctors could have imagined. Ongoing problems include fatigue, a racing heartbeat, shortness of breath, achy joints, foggy thinking, a persistent loss of sense of smell, and damage to the heart, lungs, kidneys, and brain.

    ...

    A paper this week in JAMA Cardiology found that 78 of 100 people diagnosed with COVID-19 had cardiac abnormalities when their heart was imaged on average 10 weeks later, most often inflammation in heart muscle. Many of the participants in that study were previously healthy, and some even caught the virus while on ski trips, according to the authors.

    ...

    Although scientists hope they’ll learn how to avert chronic symptoms and help patients currently suffering, this latest chapter in the COVID-19 chronicle has been sobering. The message many researchers want to impart: Don’t underestimate the force of this virus. “Even if the story comes out a little scary, we need a bit of that right now,” Iwasaki says, because the world needs to know how high the stakes are. “Once the disease is established, it’s really hard to go backward.”



    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/art-20490351:

    Because it's difficult to predict long-term outcomes from the new COVID-19 virus, scientists are looking at the long-term effects seen in related viruses, such as severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).

    Many people who have recovered from SARS have gone on to develop chronic fatigue syndrome, a complex disorder characterized by extreme fatigue that worsens with physical or mental activity, but doesn't improve with rest. The same may be true for people who have had COVID-19.

    ...

    It's important to remember that most people who have COVID-19 recover quickly. But the potentially long-lasting problems from COVID-19 make it even more important to reduce the spread of the disease by following precautions such as wearing masks, avoiding crowds and keeping hands clean.


    ------


    So, yes, in that article you linked, "Fear of Health Consequences" is high because it's a real thing to be worried about. And if you compare the responses, you can see that people fear death (even if they don't get those numbers quite right) much less than they fear other impacts to their health. They have good reason to do so.

    The author just glosses over all that, though:

    This misperception translates directly into a degree of fear for one’s health that for most people vastly exceeds the actual risk ...

    The discrepancy with the actual mortality data is staggering: for people aged 18–24, the share of those worried about serious health consequences is 400 times higher than the share of total COVID deaths; for those age 25–34 it is 90 times higher. The chart below truly is worth a thousand words:

    This thinking is dangerous. The author, who is not a doctor (at least not kind that helps people, as the joke goes - she has a Ph.D. in Economics) is indirectly telling people that they are misinformed, insinuating that the only real thing they have to fear from COVID is dying and because the mortality rate is so low, the whole thing is overblown. I'm sorry, I'm not taking medical information from my mutual fund slinger.

    This misinformation also causes another fundamental problem. The policy decision of what activities to keep shut and for how long is a very difficult and consequential one. It requires balancing two opposite effects of uncertain scale: on the one hand the benefits in terms of slowing COVID-19 contagion, on the other hand the harm to the economy and to people’s long-term health and livelihoods.

    No, no, no - long-term health and the benefits of slowing COVID are on the same exact side. And you could very easily argue livelihood and the economy are tied to long-term health as well - how are you going to work and go out and spend if you're in bed all day from chronic fatigue syndrome?

    "Recent concerns of possible adverse long-term consequences are by necessity speculative, since we obviously do not have long-term data yet."

    Talk about ignoring science because it is damning to your conclusions. The author knew there were reports about all the harm besides just dying and chose to ignore it. I'm sorry, but what a load of garbage. This article is going to harm people.
    Last edited by Joshua Cadmium; 08-25-2020 at 07:39 AM.


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