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    U-matic Member groveChuck's Avatar
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    AstraZeneca manufacturing error clouds its COVID-19 vaccine study results

    ASSOCIATED PRESS

    LONDON — AstraZeneca and Oxford University on Wednesday acknowledged a manufacturing error that is raising questions about preliminary results of their experimental COVID-19 vaccine.
    A statement describing the error came days after the company and the university described the shots as “highly effective” and made no mention of why some study participants didn’t receive as much vaccine in the first of two shots as expected...

    In a surprise, the group of volunteers that got a lower dose seemed to be much better protected than the volunteers who got two full doses. In the low-dose group, AstraZeneca said, the vaccine appeared to be 90% effective. In the group that got two full doses, the vaccine appeared to be 62% effective. Combined, the drugmakers said the vaccine appeared to be 70% effective. But the way in which the results were arrived at and reported by the companies has led to pointed questions from experts...

    In a statement Wednesday, Oxford University said some of the vials used in the trial didn’t have the right concentration of vaccine so some volunteers got a half dose. The university said that it discussed the problem with regulators, and agreed to complete the late stage trial with two groups. The manufacturing problem has been corrected, according to the statement...

    Experts say the relatively small number of people in the low dose group makes it difficult to know if the effectiveness seen in the group is real or a statistical quirk. Some 2,741 people received a half dose of the vaccine followed by a full dose, AstraZeneca said. A total of 8,895 people received two full doses.

    Another factor: none of the people in the low-dose group were over 55 years old. Younger people tend to mount a stronger immune response than older people, so it could be that the youth of the participants in the low-dose group is why it looked more effective, not the size of the dose...

    One of the Oxford scientists leading the research, said the answer is probably related to providing exactly the right amount of vaccine to trigger the best immune response.

    “It’s the Goldilocks amount that you want, I think, not too little and not too much. Too much could give you a poor quality response as well,’' she said. “So you want just the right amount and it’s a bit hit and miss when you’re trying to go quickly to get that perfect first time.”

    https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronav...nzq-story.html


    Oops!!! Sorry, wrong strength!


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    It is easier to deceive a man then to convince them they have been deceived.
    This is true whether someone has been deceived by corrupt lying media pushing an agenda or one of the many man-made religions also created with an agenda. Once someone is duped it is extremely difficult to get them to turn to the truth. One reason is pride. It is not pleasant to realize you've been deceived; it feels similar to getting robbed or betrayed. We the people have been conditioned not to critically think and it has largely worked. And this present time we also have been conditioned to attack anyone critically thinking who asks questions when things we are told as true "facts" do not add up.
    Once we are deceived we normally will reject all evidence, and cling to our position.
    It is very interesting how this works.
    Repeat a lie often enough and loud enough and people will believe it is true. Interesting enough people are more likely to believe a big lie than a small one.


     

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    In general, the world has been shaped by a lot of brilliance and a lot of ignorance.

    It's really no one's fault; just how it is with too many people in different places born to different caregivers and circumstances.

    __

    If ignorance outweighs intelligence and wisdom then a person may feel a lot of emotions and feelings instead of forming the kind of thoughts that need to be formed, and asking the questions that need to be asked.

    Having enough time to live a long, diverse life answers a lot of questions.


     

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    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    I think the corollary is that one should always be willing to jettison one's prior assumptions in the face of new evidence. If one isn't willing to change one's mind or consider new evidence.... and if one's conclusions are so fragile that they can't withstand an argument...

    I fully expect my current worldview to shift repeatedly as time goes by. I must operate with the beliefs I currently hold, but I'm ready to be proven wrong.
    Last edited by ahalpert; 11-26-2020 at 12:02 PM.
    www.VideoAbe.com

    "Captain, the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is 'I do not know.'" - Lt. Cmdr. Data


     

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    U-matic Member groveChuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorBro View Post
    If ignorance outweighs intelligence and wisdom then a person may feel a lot of emotions and feelings instead of forming the kind of thoughts that need to be formed, and asking the questions that need to be asked.
    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    I think the corollary is that one should always be willing to jettison one's prior assumptions in the face of new evidence. If one isn't willing to change one's mind or consider new evidence.... and if one's conclusions are so fragile that they can't win an argument...

    I fully expect my current worldview to shift repeatedly as time goes by. I must operate with the beliefs I currently hold, but I'm ready to be proven wrong.
    Agreed on both, gentlemen.

    And with that, I wish you both, and everybody out there in Camera Internet Land, a Happy, Healthy Thanksgiving!

    I have never been more thankful for my health than now...


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    It's very easy to be convinced of what you want to believe
    Quote Originally Posted by firehawk View Post
    It is easier to deceive a man then to convince them they have been deceived.
    And another 2 highlights - all too true. "I'll believe it when I see it" is nowhere near as accurate today as "I'll see it when I believe it."

    Happy Thanksgiving. Thankful for the thoughts and conversation here, thankful for health, thankful for all the beautiful things in the world that make conversations like this worthwhile to begin with!


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    Hope you all have a happy thanksgiving as well. I do not know about your businesses, but mine is picking up, for now. As with many of us, many of my clients have struggled this year, but many are trying to keep moving.


     

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    https://www.yahoo.com/news/time-upgr...130850474.html

    A piece on masks. Believe what you want.


     

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    The CDC is using a new government model designed to account for asymptomatic cases and mild cases where folks never bothered to get tested.

    https://flip.it/qbMb-A

    Based on that, they're estimating that about 100 million Americans have already had Covid (and, by obvious extension, are currently immune to it.)

    Between that, and the vaccines beginning shipping as early as possibly next week... We may already be at day 28 on the lily pad of herd immunity.

    Who knows, it might all fall apart tomorrow or next week or whatever, but it seemed like a ray of hope and a suitable message for this Thanksgiving weekend.


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    Senior Member puredrifting's Avatar
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    Having worked in clinical trials and made lots of clinical trial patient documentaries, I would suggest a maximum amount of skepticism about the efficacy, results from trials and
    the safety of these supposedly new magic bullets. I am as far from anti-vaccine as one can be but whichever company(s) deploy the new Gold standard vaccine
    aganist Covid stand to make many billions of dollars. When billions are at stake, there is going to be a lot of bad science, badly run trials like the AstraZeneca and
    dubious, fantasical claims about substandard products.

    We all want an effective vaccine as soon as possible but I can't help but see and think that the trials and papers being published on all of these supposedly miraculous
    new vaccines are largely compromised and I will definitely not be a Guinea Pig for big pharma and governments. I suggest wait and see, there will be tens of millions who
    will be willing to put their lives on the line to be the real life patient populations to find out how well these new vaccines work. I can't help but think there is a large
    amount of govermental complicity in the half assing this process with the pharma companies. I've worked closely with the FDA and out of all of the alphabet agencies
    in goverment, I can scarcely think of one more tied up in politics and the whims of politicians.

    If we roll back the clock to earlier this year, Fauci and many other experts were saying we should expect new vaccines late in 2021, not before the end of 2020. This suggests to me
    that many of the safety and protocol procedures have been compromised. Normal clinical trials take a long time. Even with streamlining, these trials have been
    compromised by politics, boards, shareholders urging them to be completed asap. Be cautious about what you are willing to put into your body.
    Last edited by puredrifting; 11-27-2020 at 08:16 AM.
    It's a business first and a creative outlet second.
    G.A.S. destroys lives. Stop buying gear that doesn't make you money.


     

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