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    #61
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niki View Post
    Sure I remember the title was

    “Why I Miss Movie Theaters, and Why Nothing Can Replace Them”

    Owen Gleiberman (I think wrote it)

    Yes he did (found it)

    https://variety.com/2020/film/column...rs-1234577997/
    Thanks! I’ll take a read of it.


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    #62
    Senior Member Mike Krumlauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James0b57 View Post
    He is so disconnected.

    Time has past for the 90’s era movie theater. It has to evolve.

    And i for one will not be jumping to spend time in a closed room with a hundred or more people for 3hrs (because he only makes long movies now), just not going to do it.

    If art is to be an essential part of society, then it has to have some relevance.... movie theaters do not hold that value at this time, pandemic or no.

    I remember going to the theater prior to the internet, and before HD. Definitely was an important part of society back then...
    I agree, in the 20th century, when we were watching movies on 35mm prints it was a monumental and sacred experience. All theaters are now are big TVs. I rarely if ever go to the theater and now once things begin to start rolling whenever that might be (my money is mid to late summer) I really have no interest in overpaying.

    I have a 55in and 70in 4K TVs in my home, they are plenty big for me to experience what I need out of the material. I'm more then happy to wait an additional 6-12weeks to watch it for 3 bucks on my TV at home. Theaters just dont do it for me anymore and honestly I expect them in my life time to die or at least dwindle down like the use of celluloid cameras and film stocks... just the way its going to be.
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    #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Krumlauf View Post
    I agree, in the 20th century, when we were watching movies on 35mm prints it was a monumental and sacred experience...
    Especially, "Dude, where's my car?".

    (It's a joke, people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Krumlauf View Post

    I have a 55in and 70in 4K TVs in my home, they are plenty big for me to experience what I need out of the material. I'm more then happy to wait an additional 6-12weeks to watch it for 3 bucks on my TV at home...
    Pricing is open to change. It's quite likely that a studio could offer a PPV for $30-$50 almost immediately upon the theater release, which would then slide down to nothing as a part of its subscription service.


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    #64
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Krumlauf View Post
    I agree, in the 20th century, when we were watching movies on 35mm prints it was a monumental and sacred experience. All theaters are now are big TVs.
    Interesting take.

    I see what you're saying, but movie going has gone through quite a history. Difficult to say what they are or what they should be.


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    #65
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niki View Post
    Sure I remember the title was

    “Why I Miss Movie Theaters, and Why Nothing Can Replace Them”

    Owen Gleiberman (I think wrote it)

    Yes he did (found it)

    https://variety.com/2020/film/column...rs-1234577997/
    Ha! just read it. Pretty amazing how closely the article touches on just about everything we mention in this thread. =)

    The writers main point, or idk if that is the right way to describe it. More so, the writer describing their reason for going to the movie theater:
    Quote Originally Posted by Variety
    One essential reason I go to the movies, though, is to escape. And that sometimes means…escaping my home. But it’s all to get to a different place that I call home. A place where it’s dark and safe and anonymous, but where that safety affords me the privilege of luxuriating in something adventurous or even dangerous. A place where I’m inside myself, but also out there in the universe.


    Some of these other quotes made me smile, because of our similar discussions here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Variety
    And, God forbid, if I were to say something like “I still love the movie-theater experience” (which I do), the culture is now cued to look at me as if I’ve taken leave of my senses. Because that simple statement contradicts the new dogma, which is this:

    Home viewing rocks. Movie theaters suck.
    and..
    Quote Originally Posted by Variety
    Or so says the new dogma. Whenever I hear people list the 12 Commandments of Gripe about the contemporary movie-theater experience, I get it (I really do). But I also wonder, in a way, what they’re comparing it to. The glory days of the 1980s?

    one thing to note, is that we are cinephiles. Or at least we love the craft related to it all. The writer does say:
    Quote Originally Posted by Variety
    When I became a film junkie at 17
    Quote Originally Posted by Variety
    One of the reasons I became a critic is that, to me, sitting in the dark watching a movie is a holy experience, even when the film itself isn’t up to snuff.
    Haha, that last one reminded me of Mike's comment. 'holy'

    Unfortunately, not enough Cinephiles to keep all the theaters up and running. The writer ends the article with these sentiments:
    Quote Originally Posted by Variety
    I go to the movies for a great many reasons, first and foremost to experience fantastic films. One essential reason I go to the movies, though, is to escape. And that sometimes means…escaping my home. But it’s all to get to a different place that I call home. A place where it’s dark and safe and anonymous, but where that safety affords me the privilege of luxuriating in something adventurous or even dangerous. A place where I’m inside myself, but also out there in the universe.
    I'd very much agree there is much appeal there. Might be the main reason I go by myself or with friends even.

    The writer however said something else, or alluded to in passing about the 'seat assignments' being annoying:
    Quote Originally Posted by Variety
    I find it interferes with the indolent spontaneity of going to the movies that I associate with the ‘70s — the wandering in, the sitting wherever you want, the freedom of it.
    ...not sure if you saw the same thing I did, but what caught my eye was: indolent spontaneity of going to the movies

    For me, that is what the higher prices takes away. I don't just go when I feel like it. Just like I don't go to a restaurant or buy nice wine whenever I feel like it. Dropping $40 on a bottle of wine, or a local restaurant, or whatever it may be. They're nice, but it has to almost be for a reason. So, it takes that "spontaneity" away. Then, as I walk out of the theater, and I hear that sound of popcorn and trash being swept up in the foyer, and I am sugar crashing from too much soda, and belly full of popcorn, because I opted for the 70c extra to make my $14 small combo a large.... I feel kind of bad. Instead of having just taken a break from life, I am making my life more difficult.

    And there is the disconnect for the things that all these lovers of CINEMA mention. There is just this broad brush feel-good about disappearing with others in a trusting bond and cathartic thrill. Yeah, but my mom didn't just buy my ticket so me and my friends could go to the movies and get pizza. No, I went alone, and got to choose between 'Bloodshot' and 'Trolls' (not really, but you get it).

    People want to eat healthier, enjoy life. Sugar water and Reeses pieces for the price of honest to goodness good food? Kind of stings.

    But it isn't all about the expense. If you really like something, $12-$40 is not expensive. According to records, if we account for inflation, the 70's is possibly the most expensive movie ticket price. So, it is more about "value". What kind of value is the experience? Movie theaters and studios hated how Moviepass was 'cheapifying' theaters. And I can see that. But what are movies? What is soda and popcorn? THEY ARE CHEAP. Not to film or make, of course, but to consume.

    So, we have these inexpensive commodities, that we want to use to get away, but now we have to pay a premium. Maybe back in the 70's, that premium was worth it. It offered culture. it offered escape. Movies were from the perspective of people dealing with similar culture and identities. I don't know. Maybe it was worth it. Maybe concessions were the cheap part, and just the tickets were high. It can be easy to blame the TV for all of this. It forced theaters to become something grander than our living rooms. Television forced theaters to become an unattainable experience. I don't know. For those eras, I kind of liked that balance. TV was the new cheap escape, and movies were an event. Luckily, prices didn't go up after the 70's, and they actually stayed down till the the early 2000's. But the thing was "value". Movie theaters have always been worth it. Even today, they are worth going to.... if you want to see a big epic film in immersive big sound..... TV replaced movie theaters as an information source, and as a cheap escape, and film makers and studios rose up to the challenge. But in doing so, year by year, decade by decade, they slowly forced audiences to reduce how often they go.

    Are films a part of our culture? do they tell stories that help us define ourselves? when we go, are we enjoying the fact that we are not alone? yes, to all of those. But is it important, like important as plumbing? or hospital work? no. So there is an element of cathartic whimsy. And that is part of the value equations for me. So, yes, I really enjoy going, yes, g-o-i-n-g to the movies. And I think when a movie is really good, sometimes you can see it on the look of another person, and there is something shared from that experience. They can be wonderful places.

    Where I don't think movie theaters hold their value to the broader public is "indolent spontaneity". Perhaps something that was more a part of cinema before television. And maybe it should be again.
    Last edited by James0b57; 04-19-2020 at 01:39 AM.


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    #66
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    I saw ET in the summer of 1982 - daytime weekend matinee - for $3. So, $12 is a pretty accurate inflation indicator of 4X of 1982-2020 time frame (the BLS massages its numbers ... the Wikipedia page on the CPI has most of the relevant info ... and ticket pricing jumps in larger increments). This I had to look up but the Whopper was $1.40 and the Big Mac $1.30 (average prices, depending on a location).


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    #67
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    I saw ET in the summer of 1982 - daytime weekend matinee - for $3. So, $12 is a pretty accurate inflation indicator of 4X of 1982-2020 time frame (the BLS massages its numbers ... the Wikipedia page on the CPI has most of the relevant info ... and ticket pricing jumps in larger increments). This I had to look up but the Whopper was $1.40 and the Big Mac $1.30 (average prices, depending on a location).
    (Data based on US ticket prices)
    What is crazy was how flat movie ticket prices were from 1915 till 1950. The price of a ticket in the 50’s was 0.50 cents, when adjusted for inflation, is roughly $4 in todays USD.

    Prices steadily went up from the mid 50’s on until the ealry 80’s, where it saw a second plateauing.

    Then from the beginning of the 2000’s till 2019 the near two decades of the fastest increase in ticket prices.

    Hollywood was saved by International sales during these two decades. Likely raising the US prices as fewer but more ardent movie goers are willing to pay a little more each year, and theaters needing to rely on profits from fewer audience members, and shorter theatrical runs.

    I think the box office brought in 12billion US dollars till recently. Their not doing bad, as an industry. Just fewer people going, but paying more.

    What may be an issue for many movie goers in the US, is not exactly the price, but how sharply that price has risen over the last two decades, and salaries haven’t. Movie tocket prices nearly doubled since 2000, but the average income has risen slower, while poverty has also increased (which i think means the middle class shrunk a little). So, when people in the US complain about movie ticket costs, it is kind of understandable. Because overall cost of living has gone up, without a proportional increase in wage. And the movies that were supposed to be that communal cheap escape, especially during hard times, did what...? That’s right, raised prices faster than ever before, bringing in some record breaking box office numbers while they were at it. So, when i say, i don’t care, it is because, that isn’t true cinema to me, that is a machine.
    Last edited by James0b57; 04-19-2020 at 02:45 PM.


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    #68
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Here's a minimal timeline of movies in the context of theaters, and some of the "competing" media released or invented along the way.


    Movie history timeline (USA):

    1878 - First motion capture

    1889 - First motion picture camera

    1895 - The 90’s! Cinematographe and Auguste and Louis Lumiere

    1902 - First full time cinema opened in Los Angeles, CA - and “Trip to the Moon”

    1905 - Nickelodeon

    1915 - first feature length film

    1922 - First 3D film

    1927 - First Talkie

    1933 - First Drive In Theater

    1938 - TV’s COMMERCIALLY SOLD in USA

    1939 - Technicolor

    1948 - Anti Trust Law - And ushering in what we now know Movie Theaters to be today

    1953 - Stereo sound and larger screens

    1955 - FIRST TV REMOTE CONTROL (when the viewer became god)

    1958 - William Higinbotham invents the first video game

    1971 - First video game arcade opens called Computer Space

    1974 - New Hollywood

    1977 - Star Wars - Federico Fellini says it is not Cinema - Atari releases their first video game console for home users

    1979 - Sony Walkman

    1980 - unofficial start of the MTV and Cable TV generation of viewers

    1983 - Nintendo NES released

    1989 - Nintendo Game Boy

    1993 - Los Angeles Times reporter William D Montalbano mentions the ‘erosion’ of cinema.

    1999 - first digital projectors - Star Wars ‘The Phantom Menace’

    2005 - HDTV flat screens introduced, Youtube launched

    2007 - iPhone released, Netflix starts streaming service

    2013 - Instagram adds video to compete with Vine and Snapchat

    2019 - Scorsese says Marvel is not Cinema

    2020 - Nolan saves movie theaters
    Last edited by James0b57; 04-19-2020 at 10:22 AM.


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    #69
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    Here's the GDP/capita chart

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...united-states/

    Here's an average wage chart

    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wages

    Side note - Germany televised the 1936 Summer Olympics - held in Berlin - but not to homes per se. TV's were exhibited in department stores and special TV parlors, as they were a novelty at that time.


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    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Krumlauf View Post
    I agree, in the 20th century, when we were watching movies on 35mm prints it was a monumental and sacred experience. ...I expect them in my life time to die or at least dwindle down like the use of celluloid cameras and film stocks... just the way its going to be.
    Anytime I hear people talk of CINEMA with a sense of reverence, I think back to the beginnings of movies, especially its perception in the US as low class entertainment.

    Cecil DeMille's brother, back in 1913, wrote to him "I cannot understand how you are willing to identify yourself with a cheap form of amusement, and which no one will ever allude to as art."

    Many claim that the Silver Screen was the best era.

    Many claim the 70's was the last era of true cinema.

    Many look back as the 80's as the heyday for going to the theater.


    Movies definitely had a lowly start in the US. It was a gimmick adopted by the "circus" type. Step right up, get yer ticket, see a marvel...etc.

    Shortly after the birth of film, the world wars broke out, and the US became the major film producer in the world.

    However, even today, American cinema has not totally shed those "circus show" roots. All about getting that paper ticket and cheap concessions to go see something ya never seen before, kid!

    Cinema in other parts of the world developed differently, although, due to the extreme dominance of 'Hollywood', I'd say that many film making communities all over the world have adapted a bit of that Hollywood mentality. Despite that, there are still many bright and passionate story tellers all over the world continuing to keep cinema something more than just commerce. due to the traditionally expensive nature of film making, it has been difficult to separate the craft from the business. But the last decade has seen immense drops in the cost barrier to film making. And the internet has given everyone an outlet for the time being. There is a lot of good.
    Last edited by James0b57; 04-19-2020 at 03:17 PM.


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