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    Senior Member Liam Hall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    I don't see why the relative population size of Sweden would change the relative death toll.
    It's not just size that matters, it's density (insert own joke). Sweden is not New York, it's not London or Bergamo. Countries, cities are different and they are impacted differently by the virus.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    In a year, we'll know if they should have done more or if we overreacted.
    Maybe, which is why we shouldn't be overly harsh on those people making tough decisions for greater good. They shouldn't be hung out to dry if they simply made the best decision they could with the data they had. Of course, those that are trying to manipulate the crisis for personal gain against the national or international interest should be shamed, and that goes for Governments.


    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    One drug (hydroxychloroquine) has shown effectiveness in a small Chinese study, but only if it's taken in the early stages of disease. But right now due to capacity constraints, nobody goes to the hospital or gets a test unless they're already seriously ill!
    Yep, also shown effective in a small French study but still a long way off from being an approved treatment.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    Finally, South Korea never closed their economy because they had robust testing and contact tracing systems in place that allowed them to quarantine clusters of patients before they could infect others. If we get our outbreak under control, we can do what they are doing.
    The USA, like every country apart from Japan, has no chance of copying what the South Koreans have managed. If you've been to South Korea you'll understand why. They love rules and love adhering to them. It's like the country has OCD, it's so neat, tidy and well ordered. The rest of the world, not so much...
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    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    I largely agree with you but:

    Quote Originally Posted by Liam Hall View Post
    It's not just size that matters, it's density (insert own joke). Sweden is not New York, it's not London or Bergamo. Countries, cities are different and they are impacted differently by the virus.



    Maybe, which is why we shouldn't be overly harsh on those people making tough decisions for greater good. They shouldn't be hung out to dry if they simply made the best decision they could with the data they had. Of course, those that are trying to manipulate the crisis for personal gain against the national or international interest should be shamed, and that goes for Governments.




    Yep, also shown effective in a small French study but still a long way off from being an approved treatment.



    The USA, like every country apart from Japan, has no chance of copying what the South Koreans have managed. If you've been to South Korea you'll understand why. They love rules and love adhering to them. It's like the country has OCD, it's so neat, tidy and well ordered. The rest of the world, not so much...
    85% of Sweden lives in urban areas. A quarter of the country lives in Stockholm.

    There are larger hydroxychloroquine studies underway. We'll sure feel dumb if we let a million people die, then find out we could have saved half of them!

    I have no idea if we can emulate South Korea. But if we suppress our epidemic now, I'm certain we could do a better job of containment afterwards.


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    Senior Member jamedia.uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    In a year, we'll know if they should have done more or if we overreacted.

    In a year from now you will know if you over reacted. You can sit around and discuss it.
    OTOH it is unlikely you will be here to know if you should have done more....

    The trick is not to overwhelm the health services with a huge spike as then everything breaks down.


     

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    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if I mentioned this before or anyone else has, either. And I probably wouldn't have thought about it if my GF wasn't a paramedic and I asked her the other week if they had been busy(they typically are extremely busy in this county) and she said "No", which surprised me. People staying at home and not venturing out as much or working also cuts back on a lot of accidents that happen on a normal day. Think about how many resources just one bad traffic accident can eat up at a hospital.


     

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    Senior Member Liam Hall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    85% of Sweden lives in urban areas. A quarter of the country lives in Stockholm.
    Yes, but Stockholm is not London or New York. It's a village by comparison.


    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    There are larger hydroxychloroquine studies underway. We'll sure feel dumb if we let a million people die, then find out we could have saved half of them!
    I agree. But I'm not a quack, so I'll let them decide what we are treated with.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    I have no idea if we can emulate South Korea. But if we suppress our epidemic now, I'm certain we could do a better job of containment afterwards.
    Yes, for sure.
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    Senior Member Liam Hall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    I'm not sure if I mentioned this before or anyone else has, either. And I probably wouldn't have thought about it if my GF wasn't a paramedic and I asked her the other week if they had been busy(they typically are extremely busy in this county) and she said "No", which surprised me. People staying at home and not venturing out as much or working also cuts back on a lot of accidents that happen on a normal day. Think about how many resources just one bad traffic accident can eat up at a hospital.
    This was mentioned today in Cuomo's presser.
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    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamedia.uk View Post
    In a year from now you will know if you over reacted. You can sit around and discuss it.
    OTOH it is unlikely you will be here to know if you should have done more....

    The trick is not to overwhelm the health services with a huge spike as then everything breaks down.
    I agree. I support the lockdown and erring on the side of caution. But I'm open to having a robust debate, especially since that's the best way to win people over.


     

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    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liam Hall View Post
    Yes, but Stockholm is not London or New York. It's a village by comparison.




    I agree. But I'm not a quack, so I'll let them decide what we are treated with.


    Yes, for sure.
    Milan has a smaller population than Stockholm and had a very bad outbreak. If we want to discount small populations, we might as well ignore Sweden altogether - it only has 10 million people.

    We don't disagree about listening to experts regarding medicine. I was trying to say I support flattening the curve to give scientists and doctors more time to run experiments.


     

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    Senior Member Liam Hall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    Milan has a smaller population than Stockholm and had a very bad outbreak. If we want to discount small populations, we might as well ignore Sweden altogether - it only has 10 million people.
    I'm not discounting small populations, just pointing out that places are different, and therefore the virus will have a different impact when it turns up. New York and London are both major international hubs, Milan has an old population for example. The Swedes are rolling the dice. It's ballsy for sure. I felt when the UK took the same course it was a mistake but have no idea whether it's a good call for Sweden, I hope it is but who knows?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    We don't disagree about listening to experts regarding medicine. I was trying to say I support flattening the curve to give scientists and doctors more time to run experiments.
    Agree. 100%.
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    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    It looks like some work is continuing by turning the camera around -

    I saw a post yesterday looking for an Indian-American director/DP who could shoot scenes at home of their adolescent son (if they had one).

    Then today I saw a post looking for doc shooters who are quarantined with a high school senior they could film for a doc about graduating high school during the pandemic.

    Strange times.


     

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