Coronavirus Impact

[ahalpert]

One thought I had on the great depression -

Some people are wondering if this pandemic will leave a lasting imprint on us like that depression did. My guess is that it won't, because in the worst case scenario covid will last 1.5-2 years. The GD lasted 10 years, followed by a major 6-year war that imposed rationing (or devastation, depending on where you lived). So the GD was a factor of magnitude longer.

But maybe we'll come out of this more germophobic and neurotic about hand-washing. Maybe mask-wearing will become more common. I, for one, will be much more afraid of the next epidemic that gets reported.

But the real lesson this drives home for me, on top of the 2008 recession, is that a recession could happen at any time and for reasons that even clever people can't predict.

[groveChuck]

Official guidance is now looking to become "wear a masK" as they think the virus may be transmitted airborne easier than initially suspected.

Does anyone know - can surface particles be disturbed and become airborne by handling?

Say for example handling a package (cardboard box) or a grocery store item (plastic bag of chips) that theortetically may be contaminated. Can the act of picking up the package and handling it disturb the surface particles, send them airborne, and then lead to inhalation?

Reason I ask: is the risk of handling items delivered to your home a matter only of touching surfaces without a need for a mask? Or is it advised to wear a mask when handling delivered items?

My system, to be honest, is I open packages (just did an hour ago), after they've sat on my balcony for 2 days, wearing a mask and gloves.
And I mist them lightly with 91% spray alcohol.
Overkill? Perhaps, but my wife has COPD, and I want to reduce risk as much as possible.
Took my wife to the pharmacy today to pick up an Rx, only her second time out in an N95 mask, and I got a queasy feeling in my stomach...

Grocery dry goods I leave out for one day. Don't ask why the discrepancy, but that's what I do.

Probably more an abundance of love and caution than science...

[groveChuck]

But the real lesson this drives home for me, on top of the 2008 recession, is that a recession could happen at any time and for reasons that even clever people can't predict.

The more we think we know everything, the more it turns out we don't. ©

[ahalpert]

Looks like Japan is declaring a state of emergency: https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-52184375

But they will not be restricting business and movement as much as elsewhere, I'm sure Knoop will happy to hear. People are afraid that Tokyo is about to have a major outbreak. But from what I read, they have about double the number of cases there from one week ago. NYC before social distancing was doubling every 2-3 days. Could widespread mask-wearing in Tokyo be slowing the spread?

""In Japan, even if we declare a state of emergency, we will not close cities as seen in foreign countries. Experts have told us that there is no need for such a step," said Mr Abe."

[jamedia.uk]

India First, I guess. This is becoming every man for himself.

No, it is because Hydroxychloroquine doesn't work and has caused deaths in the USA.

Trump has continued to tout the unproven remedy Hydroxychloroquine which is not not approved in anywhere in the world for Covid-19 treatment.

Most of the world is actually working together.

[ahalpert]

No, it is because Hydroxychloroquine doesn't work and has caused deaths in the USA.

Trump has continued to tout the unproven remedy Hydroxychloroquine which is not not approved in anywhere in the world for Covid-19 treatment.

Most of the world is actually working together.

Wrong, bro. India is hoarding it for themselves. The proven effects of hydroxychloroquine are modest and larger studies are required, but the drug is widely being used in the US with covid patients even though it hasn't been fully studied. But no, I don't think Trump should be touting it. And yes, most of the world is being more cooperative. People have died taking the wrong drug or taking it without medical supervision. It's an anti-malarial in use for a long time.

From CNN: "In India, the eligible individuals for use of the drug are "Asymptomatic healthcare workers involved in the care of suspected or confirmed cases of Covid-19 and asymptomatic household contacts of people testing positive for Covid-19."

[cyvideo]

I don't know how much overseas coverage you guys are reading but we are seeing some rather lurid reporting re the state of affairs in the States. What sort of reactions do you guys have to conments in articles like this.

Chris Young.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...Verp3TxGYMG3VI

[jamedia.uk]

Re Lurid reporting i have just see this
https://www.queerty.com/fox-news-off...ation-20200406

BTW the Guardian is not normally seen a "lurid" or sensationalist in it's reporting.

[ahalpert]

I don't know how much overseas coverage you guys are reading but we are seeing some rather lurid reporting re the state of affairs in the States. What sort of reactions do you guys have to conments in articles like this.

Chris Young.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...Verp3TxGYMG3VI

Well, I'm a regular reader of the Guardian - possibly my favorite newspaper - and you'll hear no argument from me.

Of course, for hospital beds per capita the US ranked closely with Spain, but obviously far from the top of the heap.

The popular saying here is that we have the best medical system in the world. People who toe that line will go on to say that people fly here from all over the world to get treatment.

My conceptualization is that if you're rich, you can get excellent care in a private hospital. Which is why rich people fly here.

Our current insurance system leaves some people uncovered and some people unable to practically afford going to the doctor with the coverage they have, or at least forced to make a difficult financial choice when they get ill. I'm not a fan.

Decades of austerity and closing hospitals because they weren't profitable enough, along with a general downsizing of hospitals in favor of trading bed capacity for more lucrative services (I'm not sure what - outpatient stuff?) have left us with little capacity to spare.

My 2 cents.

[mothmachine]

I was listening to "The Daily" podcast the other day (the most essential news podcast IMO), and they were talking about the reasons for shortages of various things needed to fight the virus (PPE, ventilators, hospital beds). There's a different answer for each item, but the hospital bed situation is the way it is because of cost. Hospitals aren't actually that profitable usually and are run by some strict accounting. Since about 30 years ago, there is a calculation that they need to keep hospital beds to the minimum they need, which in normal times is about 90% capacity. Like so much else, the system is run with finance in mind and not anticipating a crisis like this.

How is it that US healthcare is the most expensive anywhere and yet many hospitals struggle to stay in the black? I've wondered that and many people have answers, but there are certainly doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and various specialists that make a great deal of money. But they also usually send you their own bills, separate from the hospitals.

I was in London years ago for a few months, and went to a clinic to see a doctor, who referred me to a hospital where I got an X-ray. It was almost shocking to me how great, easy and inexpensive that whole process was. And many years before that, I lived in Prague, and it was much the same. But, if you're wealthy in the US, you may have an excellent insurance plan, paid through your job, and you will probably get excellent care and might never know what money has changed hands behind the scenes.