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    Quote Originally Posted by NorBro View Post
    just absolutely no life...even with various stipulations, the bumps and storytelling are not the same without the reactions, the noise...the energy.
    Yep. Everything feels "small". There's no spectacle, no larger-than-life.

    Most wrestling fans have already accepted what they are doing, but many others still think it should have been called off.
    Yes, I agree, and that's what I find interesting. How quickly people have adapted. The first time I saw one of those matches from the performance center, I thought -- this is awful. They can't go on with this, this will kill their whole larger-than-life, suspension-of-disbelief angle. I mean, it was as much of a difference as watching a 60i video feed vs. watching an actual film. It was so "off".

    But people adapt so quickly now. I thought there was no way they could pull this thing off three weeks ago, but I looked around at some of the reviews to see how it was received and most were pretty positive. These folks have accepted the "new normal" already. Hopefully they'll find a working formula that will let them keep producing that content and keep the fans watching it, because there's got to be tons and tons of jobs involved in producing all that material.

    but one of the guys (Drew McIntyre) has had a heck of a career after being fired from WWE 10 years ago while mostly being a jobber towards the end of that run (the lowest status you can have), and coming back and skyrocketing his way to the top of main event status with a new look and attitude that the people got behind, and he's expected to win the WWE Championship from Brock Lesnar for the first time tomorrow night (tonight), but it will be a bitter sweet moment.
    It's so ... what do I want to say here ... tyrannical? Or dictatorial? Or ... well, one of those words describes the situation. Apparently Vince is "the guy" who makes the decisions on who gets a push or not, and sometimes he's just so far off. It's kind of incredible to hear the absurd amount of boos that a couple of the performers get, the audiences just really don't like them, and yet they get pushed so hard. An example being Roman Reigns, he just has no charisma, yet apparently Vince wants him to be seen as the face of the company, the new standard-bearer. On the other hand, there are some performers who are absolutely charismatic and just leap off the screen; a few being Rollins, Owens, Kofi, R*Truth, and yes, Drew McIntyre. I only ever saw bits of his prior run, but his incarnation as the Scottish Psychopath is great -- he's a villain that the crowd loves, and he has fun with that, and they have believably turned him into a credible threat. I doubt they're ready to have him beat Lesnar though; they're getting a ton of mileage out of Lesnar with Paul Hayman character. But we'll see; I like the Braun Strowman character but never would have predicted that he would be picked to defeat Goldberg for the title, that seems so rushed.

    In any case, not to derail the thread into a discussion of actual wrestling storylines; the point of bringing it up is how one major media company is adapting to the challenges that the virus presents, and is managing to turn in content that, perhaps, audiences are accepting.


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorBro View Post
    A mind-boggling amount of content; probably more than any company in the world. There is a video about anything and everything, plus all of the libraries they have acquired.

    Barry, if you liked that last match from night 1, find this one below on the network (if you're interested):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juoTKFs7IQ4
    I had heard about it but didn't know how to look it up, thanks for the link. I don't know what to make of The Fiend character; it seems Bray Wyatt was kind of a failure in his prior incarnation, then when Finn Balor left and took his "demon" character with him, they apparently leaped on that idea and turned Wyatt into a megastar with a cheap rubber mask. The fact that audiences immediately accepted, embraced, and went crazy over such a twist is one of the things that I find so interesting about this business; I mean, years ago I declared it as basically "soap operas for men", but there's no denying that soap operas made truckloads of money for the networks for decades too.


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry_Green View Post
    Yep. Everything feels "small". There's no spectacle, no larger-than-life.


    Yes, I agree, and that's what I find interesting. How quickly people have adapted. The first time I saw one of those matches from the performance center, I thought -- this is awful. They can't go on with this, this will kill their whole larger-than-life, suspension-of-disbelief angle. I mean, it was as much of a difference as watching a 60i video feed vs. watching an actual film. It was so "off".

    But people adapt so quickly now. I thought there was no way they could pull this thing off three weeks ago, but I looked around at some of the reviews to see how it was received and most were pretty positive. These folks have accepted the "new normal" already. Hopefully they'll find a working formula that will let them keep producing that content and keep the fans watching it, because there's got to be tons and tons of jobs involved in producing all that material.


    It's so ... what do I want to say here ... tyrannical? Or dictatorial? Or ... well, one of those words describes the situation. Apparently Vince is "the guy" who makes the decisions on who gets a push or not, and sometimes he's just so far off. It's kind of incredible to hear the absurd amount of boos that a couple of the performers get, the audiences just really don't like them, and yet they get pushed so hard. An example being Roman Reigns, he just has no charisma, yet apparently Vince wants him to be seen as the face of the company, the new standard-bearer. On the other hand, there are some performers who are absolutely charismatic and just leap off the screen; a few being Rollins, Owens, Kofi, R*Truth, and yes, Drew McIntyre. I only ever saw bits of his prior run, but his incarnation as the Scottish Psychopath is great -- he's a villain that the crowd loves, and he has fun with that, and they have believably turned him into a credible threat. I doubt they're ready to have him beat Lesnar though; they're getting a ton of mileage out of Lesnar with Paul Hayman character. But we'll see; I like the Braun Strowman character but never would have predicted that he would be picked to defeat Goldberg for the title, that seems so rushed.

    In any case, not to derail the thread into a discussion of actual wrestling storylines; the point of bringing it up is how one major media company is adapting to the challenges that the virus presents, and is managing to turn in content that, perhaps, audiences are accepting.
    Goldberg was going to lose the title to Roman (to bring it back to a full-timer), but when Roman was pulled because of underlying health conditions and the current circumstances, they needed someone believable to beat Goldberg (who's a legend but only there for ratings 2-3x a year). When some guys come back, it's believable (like The Rock), but I can't get behind 53 year old Goldberg....every match he's been a part of the last 2-3 years was less than 5 minutes.

    There is so much more I want to tell you, haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry_Green View Post
    I had heard about it but didn't know how to look it up, thanks for the link. I don't know what to make of The Fiend character; it seems Bray Wyatt was kind of a failure in his prior incarnation, then when Finn Balor left and took his "demon" character with him, they apparently leaped on that idea and turned Wyatt into a megastar with a cheap rubber mask. The fact that audiences immediately accepted, embraced, and went crazy over such a twist is one of the things that I find so interesting about this business; I mean, years ago I declared it as basically "soap operas for men", but there's no denying that soap operas made truckloads of money for the networks for decades too.
    Bray Wyatt was loved in The Wyatt Family!! People were very upset they killed that character/group. But Bray is very good on the mic so anything he does works. In that match from 2017 with Orton, he's still Bray there.


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorBro View Post
    Goldberg was going to lose the title to Roman (to bring it back to a full-timer), but when Roman was pulled because of underlying health conditions and the current circumstances, they needed someone believable to beat Goldberg (who's a legend but only there for ratings 2-3x a year). When some guys come back, it's believable (like The Rock), but I can't get behind 53 year old Goldberg....every match he's been a part of the last 2-3 years was less than 5 minutes.
    I can see that angle; only thing I can say is that I thought Strowman was seriously under-utilized, I mean, he's a giant and he's charismatic but he was rarely put front and center. He seems like a believable champion, and yes he does seem like one who could potentially defeat Goldberg, but it seems like universally that match was the worst of the evening. Seems like nobody liked it at all.


    Bray Wyatt was loved in The Wyatt Family!! People were very upset they killed that character/group. But Bray is very good on the mic so anything he does works. In that match from 2017 with Orton, he's still Bray there.
    Okay, checked it out. Interesting in that yes, it was quite similar in some ways to the Boneyard match. And Orton and Bray are very good performers. I wonder how it was received by the live audience? I can see them sitting through a 30-second arrival or some silly backstage nonsense promo, but would an arena of 80,000 sit still and watch a 13-minute film up on the kiss-cam screens? I'm sure it was well received on the network, presented full-screen as it was, I'm just wondering how the live audience and the blogosphere reacted to it?

    In part, because it seems like they filmed it specifically to maintain the suspension of disbelief in the action. What I mean is, it seemed like there were lots of cuts and such, but any time both performers were engaging with each other, the camera rolled continuously throughout the engagement. By doing so, it would maintain the perception that the action was "real" instead of "acted". The only cut I noticed during the action was during the actual tipping of the refrigerator, and it was jarring because it was so noticeable that they cut there to an overhead shot. In the Boneyard match, they didn't do it that way at all, it had cuts all over the place, like in any Hollywood fight scene... yet the audience seems to have received it quite well (better, in fact, than they received Undertaker's recent live matches which, to be frank, have been pretty awful). It is my understanding the Undertaker wanted a match to go out on a high, and that's why they chose to do it this way, and also why he reverted to his biker character.

    In any case, yes, that was certainly comparable in production quality to the Boneyard match.


     

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    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Wow this turned into a WrestleMania thread fast lol


     

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    lol...my last post about it. (It was just a little break from all of the depressing stuff you guys write about.)

    ___

    Nobody liked any of Goldberg's last matches because they were short and filled with nonsense.

    There's a lot of deep history and dirt in wrestling and why certain things happen the way they do. I could write thousands of paragraphs explaining so much about everything, but it's obviously not the thread/forum for it.

    With hall-of-famers like Goldberg, he's not going to lose to just anybody (it doesn't matter what Vince says; there are negotiations at that level of personnel). So Braun was probably one of the only available choices even though he's still pretty green. (And believe it or not, Roman Reigns is very respected in the locker room for his wrestling skills.)

    Even though WWF/E has done lots of stuff outside (going back to the mid-late 90s), there was another company years ago that was more famous for these outside spectacles called "TNA/Impact Wrestling". Supposedly, Vince was not happy about what they were doing. The 'Hardy Boyz' in the video below were actually in WWE for many years - on and off. Matt just made his debut on AEW (which will undoubtedly challenge Vince more than anyone has in the last 20 years after WCW).

    https://youtu.be/kiktBcRHABU?t=658

    ___

    In wrestling, you always leave the business with a loss. You pass the torch (or title in some cases) to the next guy/gal. I doubt this WM was Undertaker's last match, but he's been in and out these past few years so who knows what he ultimately decides to do. He's the godfather of wrestling and no one has more power than him right now. His real last match was supposed to be when his WrestleMania streak was ended by Lesnar several years ago, but he --- like most of these guys --- cannot stay away from the business.

    ___

    The house match from 2017 was a bit different; Wyatt and Orton actually ended it back at the arena later in the night. (It might have even been live, IDR.)

    This 2020 Boneyard match was much more polished filmmaking (for their standards). Also, 3 years later...different minds/thoughts on the production and script.
    Last edited by NorBro; 04-05-2020 at 01:10 PM. Reason: Better link.


     

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    Senior Member cpreston's Avatar
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    When this first hit, some of the professional theatres were talking about live streaming the shows they had in production. Mostly, they were just trying to think of some idea of maintaining some sort of social media presence in order to fundraise and convince people to donate to them. It isn't a long term solution, though. A live streamed performance sucks. That's why movies and TV's exist. A 100 years of perfecting the art of filmed storytelling. Musical performances might fare slightly better. Wrestling and sports could survive since they spent years learning how to present for a TV audience, but their business models would have to change.

    My worry is that a fear of crowds and disease is being ingrained into the public. At this point, in the US the coronavirus is expected to kill the same number of people in the first wave as a bad season of the flu. Unless something changes, the public is going to expect that social distancing needs to be enacted any time an epidemic is reported. People are always looking for ways to feel safer. As an example, when I was a kid nobody wore helmets. Also, as we figure out better ways of keeping people alive for longer, people are going to become more susceptible to any type of novel disease.


     

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    Senior Member Cary Knoop's Avatar
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    For those who would like to understand the difference between case mortality rate and infection mortality rate and get an opinion on the current shelter-in-place policy:



    Note, we don't even know the infection mortality rate!
    But at the same time, people get presented charts claiming 2.4 million deaths if we don't lockdown!

    Stanford finished their first serological test last Friday and Saturday in Santa Clara, my understanding is that the broad statistics are going to be finished today but I am not sure when it will be published.


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    Cary, stay on topic ... Wrestlemania.


    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
     

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    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary Knoop View Post
    For those who would like to understand the difference between case mortality rate and infection mortality rate and get an opinion on the current shelter-in-place policy:



    Note, we don't even know the infection mortality rate!
    But at the same time, people get presented charts claiming 2.4 million deaths if we don't lockdown!

    Stanford finished their first serological test last Friday and Saturday in Santa Clara, my understanding is that the broad statistics are going to be finished today but I am not sure when it will be published.
    To some extent the actual infection mortality rate doesn't matter right now - our hospitals are getting so overwhelmed that they will have to let some people die who could have lived and we don't want that. And this is the case even though we started social distancing...


     

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