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    #21
    Senior Member Samuel H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    Don't want to be negative here but we're talking Canon. Prepare to be disappointed, that's just how it is. I love Canon cameras and glass
    but expecting them to do what logic dictates is ALWAYS fraught with disappointment.
    I want this to be a great camera, and maybe the fact that the whole market is imploding might push them to go all-out. But at the same time, I expect there will be a weird asterisk that says "8k only up to 16 fps" or "only in 5-bit black and white" or something equally silly.


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    #22
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    I shoot video mostly on the EOS R these days (1DX II for top end stills and studio video on tripod) because the size is just right, has usable D.IS, has OK (not great) 4K, and barely passable 1080p for YT/IG. The 4K crop has been a challenge for most close up work, so 1080p gets used most of the time. Note the 1080p is not a nice downsample of 4K- it's clearly line skipped as there's significant chunky aliasing, however its kinda blurred so unless one oversharpens (set in camera to 1 or off) it's not a deal breaker.

    The EOS R5 is using Canon's new smaller fab process tech. This is already in the 1DX III. This is how you can get a lot more processing performance while also reducing power (energy usage / heat).

    8K simply brings Canon up to... phones! (and Red of course, but a different market). HDR TVs and 10-bit monitors are becoming affordable (have been for a while), so I'd expect 1080p and 4K to have 10-bit. 8K should also get 10-bit, as it's needed for 8K HDR TVs, and this could easily be done with smaller process fab tech and not overheat. Storage will definitely be H.265. So there's plenty of compute power and storage is easy. However Canon is known for crippling, so 8K 10-bit may not happen (not a deal breaker for me). 4K really needs to be 10-bit (how about 12-bit? Totally possible, technically). And again, that new smaller fab tech should also mean lower RS. Remember Canon has been using really ancient (large fab) tech for a long long time, milking it until the end. Now they are in trouble financially and they need to make quick cash. That's not possible in the pro market as it's way too small. By creating a killer EOS R5 at under $4K, along with tons of new (amazing) RF glass, they'll sell like crazy and make a LOT of money in a short time.

    The 1DX III footage looks pretty outstanding from what I've seen, reminds me of the FX9 in terms of the colors and detail (can do really saturated color and still look good). S-Cinetone really helped push 'default' color up a big notch (closer to ARRI).

    Canon needs cash and they need to move all those new RF lenses: expect the EOS R5 to be the least crippled Canon release in Canon's history. Think of all the free advertising that will happen with influencers if they don't cripple it (too much)!

    If we think of the JP cameras in the same way as cars, all coming from a common parent company, e.g. General Motors and Chevy, Cadillac, GMC, Buick etc., so we've got General Camera, let's call it Keiretsu Cameras or KCam for short, then it looks like sub-brand Canon is going to release the A7S III as the EOS R5. If the sub brands are allowed to go all out, then the A7S III will have to be pretty amazing (and perhaps won't even be updated/released or will be delayed even further to wait for the R5 hype and excitement to pass).

    EDIT: KCam sounds Korean, perhaps JPCam or JCam makes more sense.
    Last edited by jcs; 02-13-2020 at 10:56 AM.


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    #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken1212 View Post
    . But what is exciting is Canon must now include 8k in their upcoming Cinema line this year including the C100 II upgrade so they do not fall bellow mirrorless in specs.
    Hmmm. I wouldn't be so sure re C100mkIII


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    #24
    Senior Member cpreston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcs View Post
    Note the 1080p is not a nice downsample of 4K- it's clearly line skipped as there's significant chunky aliasing, however its kinda blurred so unless one oversharpens (set in camera to 1 or off) it's not a deal breaker.
    The EOS R clearly uses a 4K downsample for the 1080p crop output. The rolling shutter is the same as the 4K output. The crop is the same as the 4K output. When you switch over to the 1080p crop from the 4K mode, the screen doesn't even blink. The resolved detail is exactly the same as my C300 MKII in 1080p mode.

    The full frame 1080p mode is pixel binned and I only over use it when somebody desperately wants to shoot in 60p.


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    #25
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    1DX III 4K 10-bit example. Note how well skin tones hold up with green and yellow ambient reflected light. Actor is wearing a lot of makeup, so not the best test for skintones, however overall the color is very saturated and still looks good, and detail is excellent with no visible aliasing when viewed in 4K. Highlights are OK / good enough (compared to current EOS R / 1DX II). I'd expect the EOS R5 to be similar and possibly better: this camera will be marketed to the mass market vs. sports shooters, so it's possible they'll allow better video quality (clearly so, 8K vs. 6K, though might be 420 in 8K, and 422 in 4K. 444 12-bit is totally possible given the new hardware specs (not likely though)).


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    #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpreston View Post
    The EOS R clearly uses a 4K downsample for the 1080p crop output. The rolling shutter is the same as the 4K output. The crop is the same as the 4K output. When you switch over to the 1080p crop from the 4K mode, the screen doesn't even blink. The resolved detail is exactly the same as my C300 MKII in 1080p mode.

    The full frame 1080p mode is pixel binned and I only over use it when somebody desperately wants to shoot in 60p.
    I never use 1080p crop, will test later today if I have time.

    EDIT: tested Movie Crop: it's a 1.8x crop that only has an effect if shooting 1080p: same crop as 4K, except you get a 1080p file. Funny thing is the 1080p file looks very similar to the 4K file in detail, so they are indeed downsampling in this specific mode (Movie Crop at 1080p only). Also shows that the 4K isn't really 4K (need 6K => 4K).

    • 1080p file output is horizontal pixel binned + vertical line skipped and provides FF FOV & DOF. Due to the line skipping there's aliasing and a loss of detail. The FF wide FOV and shallow DOF make this mode useful for close and medium shots or when there's not enough room to back up to cover the entire shot
    • 1080p file output with Movie Crop enabled is effectively a 2x downsample from the UHD crop to HD before passing the frame to the compressor. Perhaps useful if using APS-C lenses and needing 1080p or smaller files (not very useful otherwise: might as well use 4K)
    Last edited by jcs; 02-13-2020 at 10:00 PM.


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    #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gweilo66 View Post
    Hmmm. I wouldn't be so sure re C100mkIII
    I am being optimistic and logical, however we all know that logic has not been a priority in Canon's Handbook lately. But it does look they will be coming out swinging with the R5, let's just hope they score a home run.

    On another note, yes Canon can introduce the same 8k they are planning for the R5, but it's not going to be raw or 10 bit to kill their C500 II, and for sure it will have a major crop. I hope though their new cinema lineup has RF mount.


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    #28
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    The new Canon 8K cameras will be ready for the Olympics, as Canon sure does not want to miss them.


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    #29
    Senior Member Jaime Valles's Avatar
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    If they remove the artificial 30 minute video recording time limit, I'll buy two of them instantly.

    But I'm not holding my breath...
    Jaime VallÚs
    AJV Media
    Video, Photography & Graphic Design: www.ajvmedia.com


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    #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime Valles View Post
    If they remove the artificial 30 minute video recording time limit, I'll buy two of them instantly.

    But I'm not holding my breath...
    Absolutely, that would be great. However, no way canon would do that as this is one feature which is reserved for their cinema and video cameras line.


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