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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    C'mon, now... Is your argument over raw resolution numbers or that one 8K image is as good as another 8K image? Because there are cell phones that shoot 8K, now, but they're not gonna look like an 8K image shot with a RED. My iPhone shoots 4K, but it doesn't look like an Alexa 65 or even my F55.
    No not at all. I meant the 8k hype can be a positive or negative for folks. I do not care much about it but it will probably make the 4k image better.


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    Cinema5D specifically mentioned 8K-->4K down-sampling, so in this particular case the camera should have a nice 4K image.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NorBro View Post
    Cinema5D specifically mentioned 8K-->4K down-sampling, so in this particular case the camera should have a nice 4K image.
    Depends on how they do it. Pixel skipping could create moire. Pixel Binning has it's own problems. Oversampling may be too computationally intensive. They SHOULD be able to do it fine. But this is Canon who has only made 1 decent, well-featured SLR for video in the last 10 years. So who knows. And crop factor is right out! I'd wait for the R6 if they try to add a crop factor to 4K on the R5.


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    Apparently Canon said the 8k video does not have a crop. So one would expect the other modes to be without a crop as well. We will see but who knows when with the world shut down.


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    Quote Originally Posted by brettsherman View Post
    Depends on how they do it. Pixel skipping could create moire. Pixel Binning has it's own problems. Oversampling may be too computationally intensive. They SHOULD be able to do it fine. But this is Canon who has only made 1 decent, well-featured SLR for video in the last 10 years. So who knows. And crop factor is right out! I'd wait for the R6 if they try to add a crop factor to 4K on the R5.
    Cameras like the 1DX Mark II/III and 5D Mark IV have nice 4K from higher resolution sensors so it's not really an issue if Canon doesn't make it one (moire/aliasing exists even on some higher end cameras).

    Canon always saved the lower-quality via pixel-binning and line-skipping for 1080p (some cropped exceptions may exist). In the R5's case, it was mentioned in a good way; "improved" image quality (and that's all they said for now).

    Nevertheless I really can't imagine the 4K looking bad from this 8K camera.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NorBro View Post
    Cameras like the 1DX Mark II/III and 5D Mark IV have nice 4K from higher resolution sensors so it's not really an issue if Canon doesn't make it one (moire/aliasing exists even on some higher end cameras).
    Excepting the 1DX MarkIII, they were only able to do this with significant crop factor. For those that shoot narrative work, it's not a big deal. For those that shoot real-time uncontrolled documentary-style filming, crop factor is a HUGE deal. As it requires changing lenses frequently. Based on the 1DXIII I think they've FINALLY got it figured out, but Geez did it take them a long time. I could also see them protecting the more expensive camera also. So who knows at this point.


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    My hope is that Canon really wants to establish the new RF mount to push RF lens sales. I think they know C-series users are probably not going to upgrade their cameras just to get the RF lenses, but still shooters will for a proper mirrorless body. This points to the need for a cracking R5 that spurs buzz and purchases. Might be wishful thinking from the copier company but can they ignore the bright light we can all see coming at the end of the tunnel? Kind of now or never in some respects. A few more generations of cell phone development and where is it all going to be?
    Last edited by Bassman2003; 03-30-2020 at 08:36 AM.


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    The EOS R has an UHD to 1080p 4:1 supersampling mode. All of the past cinema EOS cameras were based around a 4K to 2K downsampling. My guess is that the 4:1 direct debayering is the least computationally intensive of the supersampling methods and Canon has it built into their chips at this point. I would be extremely surprised if the R5 doesn't do a direct 8K to 4K 4:1 downsampling that will be nearly free of moire. I would also be willing to bet that it will be an 8bit 4:2:0 recording since that is also Canon's standard for their consumer video.

    Also, I actually found that the crop on the EOS R was useful because it allowed me to use my 18-135 stm lens for my documentary style projects. With that lens, I could cover almost any outdoor event. If I was stuck in low light, I could use the Sigma f/1.8 zooms. Full frame would actually require me to do more lens changes.


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    The 33 MPX 8K is only slightly larger than a 444 4K (26.4 MPX), so it can be programmed not as downsampled image but a simple 1-for-1 readout, similar to the old Sony F35 which was 2K with 6.6 MPX. Whether or not this is how it's going to be implemented remains to be seen.

    And the new Speedbooster (pricey at $460) takes most of the EOS R/5D IV crop out.


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    Quote Originally Posted by brettsherman View Post
    Excepting the 1DX MarkIII, they were only able to do this with significant crop factor. For those that shoot narrative work, it's not a big deal. For those that shoot real-time uncontrolled documentary-style filming, crop factor is a HUGE deal. As it requires changing lenses frequently. Based on the 1DXIII I think they've FINALLY got it figured out, but Geez did it take them a long time. I could also see them protecting the more expensive camera also. So who knows at this point.
    The 1DX II has a crop of ~1.3x so that's less than APS-C. (I think the 1DC back in 2012 was around 1.2x.)

    But a heavier crop (~1.9x) on the IV was most likely to protect. (Why buy a 1DX if they would be exactly the same camera for video minus 60p?)

    IMO, Canon is technically able to do whatever they want, but choose not to for various reasons. The engineers don't need to figure anything out, but maybe corporate does.

    Generally speaking, if one knows/follows cameras, the business practices provide us everything we need to know. Certain companies specialize in highly desired features while others offer inferior versions of them or don't offer them at all.

    Canon may have been stuck with crop factors for a while but was allowed the best AF. Sony was eventually allowed to have it too, but couldn't have 4K/60p. Both aren't allowed real IBIS (for now...and Sony's is horrible), while Panasonic dominates the industry with it (and Olympus via small sensors). There are more examples but that's a major one.

    Also should keep in mind what other cameras offer (most larger sensor mirrorless stills cameras have crops in higher resolution framerates) and when the cameras were released. The 1DX II was a 2016 system at a time when there was no other mirrorless stills camera that offered 4K/60p. So they were way ahead of everyone for a while, but just decided to really limit most of its other features.


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