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    Senior Member Samuel H's Avatar
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    Haha yes, no worries

    I answered becuase I thought it was an open question to everyone. If you only get answers from people who shoot like you do, then the answer will be that they like what you like. Not a very useful query.
    On the other hand, I completely understand that I'm a fringe user: I work on something completely unrelated, and even if I spend way more time and money on this than would be reasonable, it's just a hobby for me. But still I think I'm representative of a lot of users. Among other things: most people I see shooting on the streets are using a very similar setup: shooting marketing events or weddings or whatever, just with the camera and a small gimbal.


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    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel H View Post
    Haha yes, no worries

    I answered becuase I thought it was an open question to everyone. If you only get answers from people who shoot like you do, then the answer will be that they like what you like. Not a very useful query.
    On the other hand, I completely understand that I'm a fringe user: I work on something completely unrelated, and even if I spend way more time and money on this than would be reasonable, it's just a hobby for me. But still I think I'm representative of a lot of users. Among other things: most people I see shooting on the streets are using a very similar setup: shooting marketing events or weddings or whatever, just with the camera and a small gimbal.
    My question was poorly phrased and too vague.


    Firstly, you do represent a lot of the shooters out there in the world. In particular the hobbyists, and the self made content creators. Even many traditional pros use those setups for jobs, because they work. They are tools. We all love them. I think this past weekend i did a setup for a production that was looking for ronin s configurations.

    The question wasn’t about what is the one best camera, as in this day, having so many options is the best part.

    My question was related to reading about all of these professionals that love the smaller form factor but miss having standard features like durable and high quality i/o ports. A body that is slightly bigger, but doesn’t require a cage, etc. there are diminishing returns on size. Cameras are cheap enough, that it is totally possible to have the micro mirrorless for gimbal work on standby, and a slightly larger body as A Cam that allows for basic industry standard workflow.

    Looking at the market, and asking others, it would seem that everyone hates the idea. It doesn’t exist! And any time it gets brought up, people make strong cases for tiny fingers mirrorless bodies, camcorders, brain boxes, and shoulder mounts, which already exist.... and yet, there is still a hole in the market for smaller ergonomically shaped bodies that have pro i/o.... but no no no, that is silly! Enter arguments why it doesn’t make sense for operators and manufacturers.

    In life, it is those that figure out solutions, not problems that we appreciate. So, i understand it is more helpful to discuss real world solutions. I don’t really want to get into arguments with people about camera designs that exist. We know they exist for a reason, and they help us solve many image capture challenges. I am simply seeing if other people share the desire for professional small cameras. And it seems like a very solid NO. Everytime i ask, since before the 1DC was introduced, until now, the answer is always NO.
    Last edited by James0b57; 03-02-2020 at 10:10 AM.


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    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Despite the near unanimous disapproval, i keep bringing it up because forums read like this:

    Yes we want better i/o ports on mirrorless cameras. NO we don’t want anything to exist that would solve that.

    Yes mirrorless camera buttons and ports are small. NO we don’t want it bigger. But we’ll add a gimbal or cage.

    Yes we like ergonomics and weather proofing. NO we don’t want any solutions that don’t already exist.

    Yes we like shooting on smaller camera bodies. NO we don’t want smaller camera bodies, we have Fs7’s

    Yes we love cages and building out our cameras. No we don’t want to have an option that is slightly bigger with 1/4-20 holes in addition to the ones we have.

    Yes we could use a dslr the same way we use a brain box. No we don’t want a dslr with pro i/o ports we want a brain box

    Yes we love having a small body mirroless and a larger Fs7 body. No we don’t want a larger dslr sized body with i/o ports and a mirrorless body companion with similar workflow and same sensor.

    Yes i want to be able to pack small and light. No i’d never use a larger dslr sized body with more A cam features and a smaller mirrorless body together.

    And on and on, with many such contradictions tha


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    Senior Member brettsherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James0b57 View Post
    In life, it is those that figure out solutions, not problems that we appreciate. So, i understand it is more helpful to discuss real world solutions. I donít really want to get into arguments with people about camera designs that exist. We know they exist for a reason, and they help us solve many image capture challenges. I am simply seeing if other people share the desire for professional small cameras. And it seems like a very solid NO. Everytime i ask, since before the 1DC was introduced, until now, the answer is always NO.
    Not for me. And maybe it's not the camera people imagine using. But it could very well be the camera they DO end up using. I think it's worth it for manufacturers to take a chance and just maybe hit a home run. What's the point of all fighting for space in the same lane, when there is a whole lane not even being used. Build it and they will come.


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    Just checked it out briefly. Impressed. Can't believe we've got this for $1699... in many ways it's an S35 version of the Lumix S1H for less than the GH5 launched for.

    Glad to see IBIS and 4k60p 10-bit becoming standard, even at sub $2k.


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    Senior Member brettsherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    I get your take on it but to me, editing H.264 and H.265 is akin to driving down the freeway with a boat anchor dragging behind your car. You might achieve the speed limit but you're going to tear up a lot of asphalt along the way.
    Several video engineers, compression experts at the studios and even Adam Wilt impressed upon me more than a decade ago the computational differences between Long GOP (Interframe) and Intraframe compression schemes and what kinds and amounts of
    resources each sucks from your system.
    Advances in computing/graphic processing power have a way of obliterating these hurdles. Interframe was a BIG, BIG deal for awhile until computers could easily handle it without sweating. H.264 was god awful sluggish until they wrote specific decompression routines for processors (and software that could take advantage of it). Now on a modern computer, editing H.264 C200 footage is very responsive. The same will happen with H.265. Now it's a bit painful. But specialized decompression chips and routines are coming online quickly. I suspect in a year or so, it's not going to be that big of deal. The nice thing about H.265 is that it is a universal format so there is great interest in designing computers to process it efficiently.

    It's always balancing storage space/cost, verses processing load, verses transcoding time. Sometimes it's native H.264/H.265. Sometimes it's RAW. Sometimes it's transcoding/proxy.


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    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Good sample video, shows what seems to be good SOOC footage for fast turn around projects where a small inconspicuous camera might actually be better.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ture=emb_title


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    Senior Member puredrifting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettsherman View Post
    Advances in computing/graphic processing power have a way of obliterating these hurdles. Interframe was a BIG, BIG deal for awhile until computers could easily handle it without sweating. H.264 was god awful sluggish until they wrote specific decompression routines for processors (and software that could take advantage of it). Now on a modern computer, editing H.264 C200 footage is very responsive. The same will happen with H.265. Now it's a bit painful. But specialized decompression chips and routines are coming online quickly. I suspect in a year or so, it's not going to be that big of deal. The nice thing about H.265 is that it is a universal format so there is great interest in designing computers to process it efficiently.

    It's always balancing storage space/cost, verses processing load, verses transcoding time. Sometimes it's native H.264/H.265. Sometimes it's RAW. Sometimes it's transcoding/proxy.
    Very timely, I just wrote a blog entry about dealing with HEVC/H.265 footage in professional workflows. https://www.hdvideopro.com/blog/deal...h-265-footage/
    Last edited by puredrifting; 04-03-2020 at 02:15 PM.
    It's a business first and a creative outlet second.
    G.A.S. destroys lives. Stop buying gear that doesn't make you money.


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