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    Lighting advice for car entrance scene?
    #1
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    Looking for ideas for this scenario:
    The garage door opens and a convertible pulls in to join the party. The lights inside the venue are mostly tungsten which is obviously different from the outdoor sun.

    When the car is outdoors it's daylight lit but as it pulls into the venue it becomes lit by both the tungsten lights and the daylight pouring in.
    Once the car is all the way in the garage door shuts and the people get out.
    This is a recurring event during different times of the day and year so the degree and temp of sun will change.

    We are considering hanging some LED lights to help light the subject (car/people). 17000 lumens worth. Not enough?
    I am thinking that daylight colored lights would be better than tungsten color so as to avoid the dramatic difference in color temp at the door area.
    However, if we use daylight lights then the rest of the room will still be tungsten so any wide shots would show a daylight subject with a very warm colored room background. The venue indoors is a little dark.
    Thoughts?
    Here are some rough pics pull in 1.jpgpull in.jpg


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    #2
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    Definitely better to go with daylight balanced units inside. If there are practical units that you can't gel here and there that go warm in the background, no big deal. The neon will do what it will do. As far as level, it depends obviously on the time of day, sunny or overcast etc. I wouldn't worry too much about variations in daylight color, a little bit of discrepancy won't feel out of place. I did a version of this for a commercial some years back, see at 4:12:

    This was a much larger space and required bigger instruments, which were all HMI. When the camera is looking at the mark, he is lit by the ambient coming in the doorway, so I balanced everything to that so that the cameras could swing around as needed (this was obviously a one-take deal!) That resulted in pretty blown out exteriors but it makes visual sense this way.
    Charles Papert
    charlespapert.com


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    Quote Originally Posted by firehawk View Post
    We are considering hanging some LED lights to help light the subject (car/people). 17000 lumens worth. Not enough?
    I can't estimate the lumens worth... but I would think you are gonna need a sh*t ton of daylight judging by how dark it is inside the venue (and if you don't want those trees to blow out like in your rough pic from the side angle). I would plan for several large (1200w ??) HMI units - say one or two (through a 12x12?) for the vehicle key and then maybe an additional 800w unit (or two) for the background. If there's places to hang out of frame - then you can fill in / backlight peeps from above. Assume this is for narrative - where you don't want blown out door.


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    #4
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    Thank you very much Charles. I was hoping you would chime in with your expertise. I remember the Jeff G video you shared before and I was thinking about that when I posted my question actually.
    I was thinking daylight would be the way to go (and that is what I told the venue owner) but wasn't sure. So I wanted to get thoughts from you guys.


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    Thank you very much Mark. I was thinking we'd need a lot more firepower then 17000 lumens too. The venue is used for events. I'll see if he will consider adding more light than his original plan. I'm pretty sure he won't go high power HMI. He's trying to go low cost and easy


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    Quote Originally Posted by firehawk View Post
    Thank you very much Mark. I was thinking we'd need a lot more firepower then 17000 lumens too. The venue is used for events. I'll see if he will consider adding more light than his original plan. I'm pretty sure he won't go high power HMI. He's trying to go low cost and easy
    Hate to be the one to say it, but that's not gonna get you firepower.

    If you didn't have to drive the vehicle in, you could net it.


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    #7
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    Is this a short film? What's the shot - door opens, car enters, door closes? Or is it about the party's reaction?


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    #8
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    I'm assuming based on "This is a recurring event during different times of the day and year so the degree and temp of sun will change." that this will be a series, presumably non-scripted?

    On the amount of firepower, I agree with the above. It's going to take a lot. On the Gordon spot I think we were probably two 2500's in Chimeras for the backlights, and M40 bounce from the right. That was a much bigger space of course. I'm guessing there isn't a lot of room behind where the pictures were taken in the garage, so it seems less likely to me that you are going to be able to afford a big rag like a 12x12 with lights behind...and your budget dictates otherwise.

    The best way to handle this with limited firepower in my mind would be to shoot everything that doesn't see out the garage door during the afternoon, using natural ambience and augmenting with fill from camera or the other side. Using large bounces (white bedsheets if necessary!) against the off-camera side walls may help especially if sun hits them (but be careful of losing that as the sun moves). So basically you are balancing to a much lower exposure than with the door open.

    Once the sun is down far enough and the ambient starts to drop, you can fall back and do the car entrance shots as seen above.

    This may well not work with the type of material you are shooting, and it involves obvious planning and tight scheduling, but it is a helpful survival technique when you can't combat the actual daylight level, and one we use often!

    Run & Gun--mne, I'd never want to net an opening that big it tends to read milky as it raises the blacks, you have to keep sun from hitting it, and you need something to help hide the hardware where it meets the ground. And assuming a tightly stretched double net, that's only a stop anyway which is something, but given a probable six or more stop difference between exterior and interior it's not enough to justify the funky look.
    Charles Papert
    charlespapert.com


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    #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesPapert View Post
    I'm assuming based on "This is a recurring event during different times of the day and year so the degree and temp of sun will change." that this will be a series, presumably non-scripted?

    On the amount of firepower, I agree with the above. It's going to take a lot. On the Gordon spot I think we were probably two 2500's in Chimeras for the backlights, and M40 bounce from the right. That was a much bigger space of course. I'm guessing there isn't a lot of room behind where the pictures were taken in the garage, so it seems less likely to me that you are going to be able to afford a big rag like a 12x12 with lights behind...and your budget dictates otherwise.

    The best way to handle this with limited firepower in my mind would be to shoot everything that doesn't see out the garage door during the afternoon, using natural ambience and augmenting with fill from camera or the other side. Using large bounces (white bedsheets if necessary!) against the off-camera side walls may help especially if sun hits them (but be careful of losing that as the sun moves). So basically you are balancing to a much lower exposure than with the door open.

    Once the sun is down far enough and the ambient starts to drop, you can fall back and do the car entrance shots as seen above.

    This may well not work with the type of material you are shooting, and it involves obvious planning and tight scheduling, but it is a helpful survival technique when you can't combat the actual daylight level, and one we use often!

    Run & Gun--mne, I'd never want to net an opening that big it tends to read milky as it raises the blacks, you have to keep sun from hitting it, and you need something to help hide the hardware where it meets the ground. And assuming a tightly stretched double net, that's only a stop anyway which is something, but given a probable six or more stop difference between exterior and interior it's not enough to justify the funky look.
    Would wetting the driveway help?


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    Honestly from what little can be seen of the interior it appears rather dimly lit. 17K lumens is a drop in the bucket. If you want to light it cheap, I would suggest putting some white sheets on the ceiling (I can't really see the current color) and pumping a ton of light into them. Daylight balance would help, but you could go about halfway with tungsten lights gelled with some high temp 1/2 CTO. People are pretty accustomed to mixed color temps these days, plus cameras can handle it much better than in the past. To keep it cheap you can buy some floodlights from Home Depot and rig them up in the rafters. Just explain to the venue owner that such rigging takes time so it's best to leave the stuff there (warning: it's ugly) plus it will be a big power drain and generate a lot of heat.
    Mitch Gross
    Cinema Product Manager
    Panasonic System Solutions Company


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