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    F23: Public Enemies was shot with REC709?!
    #1
    Senior Member Mike Krumlauf's Avatar
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    https://theasc.com/ac_magazine/July2...ies/page1.html

    Came across the old ASC article about PE and saw they used the F23 in Rec709.... I really dont understand why in the hell they would do that when they have the option for hypergammas and SLog for better color and contract/DR.


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    Maybe that explains why it looked like video [trailer]. So did some of Michael Mann's other forays into digital, like Miami Vice and Collateral.


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    Senior Member Cary Knoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Krumlauf View Post
    https://theasc.com/ac_magazine/July2...ies/page1.html

    Came across the old ASC article about PE and saw they used the F23 in Rec709.... I really dont understand why in the hell they would do that when they have the option for hypergammas and SLog for better color and contract/DR.
    Not the first time Mann does that, he is averse to "fixing in post" to the extreme. He is almost 77 and it is fair to say he did not grow up with digital techniques.

    And yes, I think it makes zero sense. If you want to see what you are filming use a LUT to monitor.


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    Senior Member Grug's Avatar
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    That film looked awful.

    I can't hate it too much though, as it was actually a terrific teaching material for me in those early days of the digital transition.

    You've got a film shot by Dante Spinotti, so there SHOULD have been no cause for concern. His lighting and compositions are always superb, right? So what could possibly go wrong?

    Well... the digital stuff.

    And almost all of it went wrong.

    This is purely conjecture on my part, but I have a suspicion that some iDIoT suggested to Dante that shooting digital with a 360 degree shutter would add more motion blur to the image, and that the extra motion blur would help hide some of the "digitalness" of the 2/3" sensor.

    What it actually did, was make the film almost unwatchable. A smeery mess with a motion cadence that felt way off.

    The colour timing too was a bit of a disaster. They just failed miserably to wrangle a pleasing image from it, and the result is this very coarse, utterly bland palette, that doesn't have the old-timey desaturated look it seems they were going for - it just looks wrong.

    So the end result was these lovely images, DESTROYED by mishandling. Both on-set and in-post.

    There's a lot to be learnt from it.


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    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Didn’t one of the Narnia films use F23?


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    Whats the problem shooting 709?

    Basically then one was delivering 709 anyway.

    709 aquisition gets the best quality result for 709 delivery as grading degrades the images somewhat.

    The big caveat is of course you have to get it perfect on set.. but in a feature situation with enough lights and control and good enough monitoring one can get it perfect on set.

    The main reason to go non 709 is lack of lights/control and poor monitoring so you cant really see what you are doing. Most of us mortals dont have enough lights and cant monitor properly.


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    Quote Originally Posted by James0b57 View Post
    Didn’t one of the Narnia films use F23?
    Yes, the third one, the Dawn Treader, and it looked quite good.


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    I don't think it looks bad.


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    I believe Public Enemies also used the EX1 or EX3 for some material (car inserts & crash cams?). Those cameras did not have alog mode, so perhaps that's why they limited everything to Rec709.

    But yeah, it looked quite poor and everyone said so upon release.
    Mitch Gross
    Cinema Product Manager
    Panasonic System Solutions Company


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    I always thought they shot Public Enemies on the F950, but after looking it up, I guess I was mixing it up with Crank. I never saw either film, but I did see a clip of Crank on TV, and I thought it looked bad, which was more of a grade issue than a camera issue, but it definitely looked like video.

    I had no idea the Dawn Treader was shot on the F23, I guess it makes sense, since they made a big deal about it being shot in 3D. I remember that one looking pretty good, but oddly enough, I thought one scene from Prince Caspian looked really bad, because they blew out all the foliage, and that was shot on film.
    Last edited by Imamacuser; 01-03-2020 at 10:07 AM.


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