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    #31
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Damn dude. The force is strong with you. I'll check those references out.


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    #32
    Senior Member Batutta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post

    I haven't seen rogue one yet but everyone says it's good. That and the Mandalorian. What do you guys think - are those good?
    Rogue One fundamentally works as a movie. It's got a solid story, isn't bogged down with the mythos and is well made. It probably has the best third act space battle and ground action of the new movies. I find some of the main characters a bit dry and uninspiring, especially the two leads. From what I understand they didn't have a solid script and it was heavily rewritten and reshot by Tony Gilroy at the last hour which might explain some of that.

    https://theplaylist.net/tony-gilroy-...cast-20180405/

    I didn't care for The Mandalorian in the early going. It seemed very thinly written and the lead character not that captivating. Some of the later episodes they started to fill him out, and in the last two episodes the main plot finally got interesting. This might have been more of a problem because I watched the show on a weekly basis as the episodes dropped. Binge watching it all at once might be a different experience. But I wasn't as bowled over by it as a lot of people. I wanted something richer, not something that played like a live action Saturday morning cartoon.
    "Money doesn't make films...You just do it and take the initiative." - Werner Herzog


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    #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batutta View Post
    . I wanted something richer, not something that played like a live action Saturday morning cartoon.
    I wonder if our problem is that these stories are written for a younger, less sophisticated audience...

    BTW you might hit a paywall but did you guys read this op-ed "We Can't See Star Wars Anymore" - it touches on some of the cultural and business transformations that have essentially destroyed what it once was: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...movie.amp.html


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    #34
    Senior Member Batutta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    I wonder if our problem is that these stories are written for a younger, less sophisticated audience...
    The problem is that 'The Mandalorian' has the veneer of something that should be edgier and more sophisticated, without actually being so. If it wasn't such a promising milieu for more complex and layered storytelling it wouldn't be so bothersome. For me, if you're going to do a television drama it's so you can explore themes, characters and concepts in a deeper, more detailed way just by virtue of having more time to explore than you do in a two hour action movie. Otherwise, what's the point?
    "Money doesn't make films...You just do it and take the initiative." - Werner Herzog


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    #35
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Hmm sounds disappointing...maybe Favreau has been in Disneyland too long


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    #36
    Senior Member Batutta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    Hmm sounds disappointing...maybe Favreau has been in Disneyland too long
    Honestly, don't take my word for it. Most people I know seemed to have enjoyed it enough, so you might have fun with it.
    "Money doesn't make films...You just do it and take the initiative." - Werner Herzog


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    #37
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Well, you sound like you have a more similar degree of criticality to me. Most people enjoy things that I think are crap. (Although I enjoy criticizing the crap.)

    But in any case - I'll happily watch Mandalorian as long as it doesn't screw with my enjoyment of the original trilogy. (Does it?) I watched Solo and while I didn't think it was a great movie, it was diverting and still Star Wars-y. And most importantly, it didn't impact my appreciation of the originals.


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    #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batutta View Post
    The problem is that 'The Mandalorian' has the veneer of something that should be edgier and more sophisticated, without actually being so. If it wasn't such a promising milieu for more complex and layered storytelling it wouldn't be so bothersome. For me, if you're going to do a television drama it's so you can explore themes, characters and concepts in a deeper, more detailed way just by virtue of having more time to explore than you do in a two hour action movie. Otherwise, what's the point?
    I don't think the Mandalorian had a goal of being complex and sophisticated. They were trying to create a world based on Lucas's original influences, sci-fi serials and westerns, which had simple stories of good and evil which generally wrapped up by the end of the episode. It was supposed to have more of that episodic TV feel.

    On top of that, the lead is supposed to be that western trope of the quiet, skilled, wanderer. And because he was so quiet, with such little dialogue, and his entire head enclosed by a helmet, you're forced to respond to the subtle movements of the actor to imagine the complexity going on inside him.

    I personally thought it was super effective at what it set out to do. I enjoyed it more than the sequel trilogy and possibly more than Rogue One.


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    #39
    Senior Member Batutta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Cadmium View Post
    I don't think the Mandalorian had a goal of being complex and sophisticated. They were trying to create a world based on Lucas's original influences, sci-fi serials and westerns, which had simple stories of good and evil which generally wrapped up by the end of the episode. It was supposed to have more of that episodic TV feel.

    On top of that, the lead is supposed to be that western trope of the quiet, skilled, wanderer. And because he was so quiet, with such little dialogue, and his entire head enclosed by a helmet, you're forced to respond to the subtle movements of the actor to imagine the complexity going on inside him.
    I'm not saying they had that goal, but the character and the world had the potential for it. It's a spaghetti western in space, and the spaghetti westerns aren't about clear cut good and evil. They traffic in antiheroes and moral ambiguity and shades of grey. They ended up making the Mandalorian a clear cut hero. Yes, the character is an archetype like Eastwood's man with no name, but you can get away with a quiet, skilled wanderer with little dialogue when you can see his face and eyes to make a connection with him. With his head in a helmet, it puts further distance from the viewer. The movements of the actor did not convey enough for me. This would have been fine if the characters around him and his interactions with them were interesting, but for the first three episodes it was mostly him wandering the desert alone. It wasn't until Episode four, when he started having real relationships with other characters did I think he became relatable and interesting. As for it being an episodic TV show, there were only two standalone episodes, 4 and 6. The rest were just pieces of one story, which makes me think this started as a 2 hour movie which they padded out with a couple more episodes to make it a series.
    "Money doesn't make films...You just do it and take the initiative." - Werner Herzog


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    #40
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Well, it started as Favreau's passion project. He wrote the first few episodes and took them to Disney and said they're doing it his way or not at all.


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