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    #51
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Thanks Sam!


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    #53
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    1. Arri Alexa Mini LF
    2. Canon Eos C500mII
    3. Red Monstro
    4. Sigma FP
    5. Sony FX9 (S-Cinetone)
    6. Sony FX9 (S-Log3)
    7. Sony Venice
    8. Red Gemini
    9. Red Helium


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    #54
    Senior Member Samuel H's Avatar
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    My notes from just before coming here and seeing the results:

    +6:
    1 - perfect highlights
    2 - broken highlights in half of his face, and her cheekbone and neck
    3 - just as broken as 2 in the highlights but with nicer rolloff
    4 - the worst in the highlights, half her face is broken
    5 - broken highlights on him but less than 2/3 and her face is almost OK
    6 - just slightly broken highlights on him, her face is perfectly OK
    7 - perfect highlights, I still like 1 better but this is pretty close
    8 - similar to 6, her face is perfectly OK
    9 - similar to 5, her face is almost OK

    -6:
    1 - perfect shadows, not a lot of noise, some in his jacket but even that would be usable
    2 - ugly noise in shadows and his jacket, but bearable otherwise, and background is OK
    3 - slightly more noise than 1, but not really too far
    4 - flicker is a killer here, but in the moments when the image is OK, shadows are bearable and background is OK
    5 - perfectly fine for the most part, then awful noise in the darkest shadows
    6 - ugly noise in shadows and his jacket, but bearable otherwise, and background is OK
    7 - slightly worse than 2 or 6
    8 - the noisiest one, ugly noise in shadows and his jacket, and visible noise in background too
    9 - slightly worse than 2 or 6

    So, with the results out, my ranking is:
    Highlights: Alexa >= Venice > FX9slog = Gemini > FX9cinetone = Helium > Monstro >= C500II > sigmaFP

    And in the shadows, as long as sigma can fix the black level flickering, I would say:
    Alexa > Monstro > C500II = SigmaFP = FX9slog > Venice = Helium > FX9cinetone > Gemini

    Not having the full ramp, I can't make an accurate guess for the whole range (highlight range plus shadow range), but if I assign any numeric value to each ">" and half as much for each ">=", then the ordering I get is:
    Alexa >>> Venice = FX9slog > Monstro > Helium >= C500II >= FX9cinetone = Gemini >= sigmaFP

    The winner, as always, is the Alexa. The Venice did great, and the FX9 seems to be pretty much tied to the Venice in terms of range. Monstro would fall behind those. And then the rest are pretty close. The Sigma is the worst in the test but it did great: there may be less range difference between the FP and the Monstro than between the Monstro and the Alexa.

    Now , for the part that's most imporant to me: comparing with my graph from page 1, I think the fp, XT3 and p6k must be pretty close to each other... as long as sigma can fix the jumping black level thing.


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    #55
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    The irony of #8, is that is Gemini, one of the cleaner cameras out there. I’ve put it up to the Alexa mini, and even at 1600, the Gemini in standard mode wasn’t breaking a sweat, and the Alexa mini was already showing noise. Then in the Gemini’s LL mode, there was just no comparison.

    So, i guess that was just really down deep on the Gemini, seeing how it managed to retain a good amount of highlights in the over. I will say, despite the hue shift on the under, the details and mount of noise is still quite nice.


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    #56
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    The LF (1) just averaged so well. It look acceptable on all of the actors, and in all of the lighting situations. It feels like this camera can do no wrong under iso3200.

    The Venice (7) skewed a certain bias. And i liked it less than other cameras in some situations. It averaged extremely well, and as a tool, that is a big deal. Very predictable results through the exposure range. A little noisy in the shadows, but generous in the highlights. Really, the only place it faltered, was in the studio on the woman. In general, digital cameras are week in green, so i am usually happy to have a little green bias, but in this test, was hard to unsee how pretty the LF and the Monstro were in the colours. In any case, the Venice is crazy good. The issue for me is, are Venice users just people who’d rather be shooting Arri, for the most part?

    The Monstro (3) i didn’t like all that much. I could see the appeal, was more saturated and it maintained nice colour on all of the actors in all of the light scenarios. But it felt midtier, at first. Until i saw the under exposure test, and then i reallized it is over exposed by maybe a stop. Which is more a stmptom of the how Red rates the camera than the DP’s fault. Actually, Eric Coughlin recently mention how he like to ETTR for cleaner shadows, so, Red is not wrong, it is just not my preference. I’m more similar to Sam H in that i’ll take highlight roll off at the expense of some noise. Though, my taste for noise gets less every year it seems.

    But if you look closer at the under exposure, the Monstro (noise reduction or not) is the cleanest on the list. The camera has some serious DR. It also scored really high on pleasing skintones and colour. A few comments were made about that. So, i can see why some people love the Monstro, and may even prefer it over the Alexa Xt or Mini. As the MiniLF becomes more available, we’ll see how that changes the perception of the Monstro.


    #5 did well for me, as far as a dark horse favorite.

    Helium(9) surprised me in how good it looked when exposed correctly. Not just good, but really good!

    All the cameras, in real life are fantastic.
    Last edited by James0b57; 02-07-2020 at 08:28 AM.


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    #57
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    JCS posted this on another thread, but it think it is worth a repost here.

    The Fx9 is a formidable mid range camera. The the consistency of colour through the exposure range, and the warmth in the slog3 to Venice LUT and it’s highlight roll off are looking to be raising the bar for this price segment. Perhaps the Varicam LT and the Ursa Mini Pro are the other two that stand out as well, but different sensor formats, so, not exactly apples to apples.


    https://vimeo.com/383382022

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HvMSBwXV6s

    Relinked the vimeo, which seems to have better looking compression.
    Last edited by James0b57; 02-13-2020 at 05:44 PM.


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    #58
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    The auto focus on the fx9 is also kind of a great equalizer for low budget new film makers who don’t have access to experienced 1st AC’s. As well as making gimbal work less stressful.



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    #59
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Recently got to shoot with the Canon C500ii. Got to say, for being i camera i never asked for, it is really great to use and shoot with. I have a few specific preferences in camera design, and lately Canon has been the farthest from it.... on paper anyway.

    Using the thing is another matter all together!

    Between the touch screen led, the oled evf, the bnc out, the audio controls in the right place for the audio person to access, and the internal ND, and the relatively conservative battery draw, and quick ~5second boot up times, i was never waiting on the camera. Never frustrated with the camera, and never limited by the camera. And yeah! It makes fantastic pictures!!!

    For full frame 35 sensor, the rolling shutter was fantastic. I felt up to iso 3200 i didnít even question if i should or shouldnít by iso 6400, i did hesitate, not having a lot of experience with it. My question being, will this match the iso 800? Luckily, i thought ahead and just shot everything at iso160 to start and spread out my baseline knowing iíd have to cheat later on. The internal NDís are great. Was easy finding a good exposure to iris setting. Especially earlier in the day when i was pushing the stock at iso 1600 and needed to adjust ND a bit more than usual.

    For me, seeing as i already have bought a red, i wonít need another A camera, but the C500ii was a breeze to pickup and start shooting with. The DR is not where i prefer, but even the Alexa doesnít have enough for what i like, but the C500ii still has plenty of latitude. I felt that wide DR made it look like the image was clipping a little sooner than the camera really was. The raw had at least an extra stop. The EVF has a nice big 1080p image that is very confidence building, and the LCD touch screen is flexible for any use.


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    #60
    Senior Member Grug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James0b57 View Post
    Recently got to shoot with the Canon C500ii. Got to say, for being i camera i never asked for, it is really great to use and shoot with. I have a few specific preferences in camera design, and lately Canon has been the farthest from it.... on paper anyway.

    Using the thing is another matter all together!

    Between the touch screen led, the oled evf, the bnc out, the audio controls in the right place for the audio person to access, and the internal ND, and the relatively conservative battery draw, and quick ~5second boot up times, i was never waiting on the camera. Never frustrated with the camera, and never limited by the camera. And yeah! It makes fantastic pictures!!!

    For full frame 35 sensor, the rolling shutter was fantastic. I felt up to iso 3200 i didn’t even question if i should or shouldn’t by iso 6400, i did hesitate, not having a lot of experience with it. My question being, will this match the iso 800? Luckily, i thought ahead and just shot everything at iso160 to start and spread out my baseline knowing i’d have to cheat later on. The internal ND’s are great. Was easy finding a good exposure to iris setting. Especially earlier in the day when i was pushing the stock at iso 1600 and needed to adjust ND a bit more than usual.

    For me, seeing as i already have bought a red, i won’t need another A camera, but the C500ii was a breeze to pickup and start shooting with. The DR is not where i prefer, but even the Alexa doesn’t have enough for what i like, but the C500ii still has plenty of latitude. I felt that wide DR made it look like the image was clipping a little sooner than the camera really was. The raw had at least an extra stop. The EVF has a nice big 1080p image that is very confidence building, and the LCD touch screen is flexible for any use.
    Would you say that it's clean enough at 1600 ISO to intercut seamlessly with 800 ISO?

    With the 2-stop jumps in ND filter steps, it'd be nice if the ISO performance is close enough that you could simply go up or down a stop in ISO (when you change NDs) in order to give you 1-stop precision in exposure (so you can keep aperture at the same setting).


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