Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 53
  1. Collapse Details
    #21
    Senior Member tired's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Central Coast NSW, Australia
    Posts
    383
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Coughlin View Post
    So remember, when you’re obese and homeless, it’s because of PAs.
    funny!


    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
    #22
    Senior Member JPNola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    New Orleans USA
    Posts
    1,377
    Default
    I shouldn't. Definitely shouldn't. Nothing good will come of it.
    Big sources matter.


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
    #23
    Default
    LOL Erich you're a cheap dude. Now I'm beginning to understand how you can afford all that gear. If you have to do the budgeting for PAs you're doing something wrong. Client should be finding and booking PAs.


    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
    #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    452
    Default
    Most of the time I'm shooting as a one man band and my approach has been to reduce the amount of gear brought on set. It makes my work easier and I can work faster and get more footage. Now I do mostly corporate videos so no need to bring all my gear. If the client wants PAs or a second shooter it's up to them to assemble the team as I'm only offering me and my gear as a service.


    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
    #25
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    3,871
    Default
    Working hard has nothing to do with it. Most of us work hard.

    Eric, you talk out of both sides of your mouth. In the last few years you have gone from this guy that thought the little two minute pieces he was shooting on Clergy were documentaries and acted like there was no reason to shoot on anything except their C300 or C100 to now having taken on this "I'm better than you, because I shoot an Arri with cine glass" attitude and saying that you charge higher rates than most and you want to buy more ultra high-end equipment, not to necessarily make your product better, but just to charge more, and to be a high-end commercial DP, but then you turn around and brag about how proud you are of, essentially doing what you can to deprive others of work and working like a low budget shooter, hauling all of their equipment around, by themself down the sidewalk in a major metropolitan city, all in the name of saving a few bucks. And you think that this makes you sound like a genius.

    We've butted heads numerous times over the years on here, but there have been times where we are on the same page and I have "given the devil his due", but honestly you've been coming across as a braggadocios kid who just wants attention, lately. Why else come onto a camera forum and post a listing for a 5K-6k sq ft house you're wanting to buy or mention that you're driving around the country in a $100K RV, when "hey, I drive around and stay in my own RV instead of hotels", would serve the same point? But not mentioning the six figure price tag wouldn't serve your goal of trying to establish your "superiority" via spending money. Or as it's otherwise sometimes know, "Conspicuous Consumption".

    Your math may be correct, but I'd agree that the totals are probably exaggerated. You're making these claims based on actually doing these things 100 times a year to arrive at these fantastical sounding "savings".

    Maybe you do have clients that just say, "here's $3K, make the shoot happen" and they don't care how you accomplish it, but mine(and a lot of others) don't. When they hire a two man crew, there better be a two-man crew show up. When they fork out the two man crew rate, it's for a two man crew. You show up by yourself, they're not paying you all of it and letting you pocket the audio portion. You're gonna get paid less, because the other portion was for another crew member. I've also been around enough corporate shoots to know that a lot of those hiring know what to expect when doling out money for a shoot and if they're paying those kinds of rates, and someone shows up solo, they know it's not for the good of the end product. If I was hiring a crew and I was quoted $3300 for a crew, I'm expecting at the bare minimum a two man crew, but possibly three. There are variables at play, though.

    Bottom line, it's your business and you can run it however you want and see fit to, but as a veteran of this industry, and if I don't know you and I hear this story, I'm thinking this guy is more worried about just making a buck off of me instead of taking care of my projects needs.


    6 out of 6 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
    #26
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    Working hard has nothing to do with it. Most of us work hard.

    Eric, you talk out of both sides of your mouth. In the last few years you have gone from this guy that thought the little two minute pieces he was shooting on Clergy were documentaries and acted like there was no reason to shoot on anything except their C300 or C100 to now having taken on this "I'm better than you, because I shoot an Arri with cine glass" attitude and saying that you charge higher rates than most and you want to buy more ultra high-end equipment, not to necessarily make your product better, but just to charge more, and to be a high-end commercial DP, but then you turn around and brag about how proud you are of, essentially doing what you can to deprive others of work and working like a low budget shooter, hauling all of their equipment around, by themself down the sidewalk in a major metropolitan city, all in the name of saving a few bucks. And you think that this makes you sound like a genius.

    We've butted heads numerous times over the years on here, but there have been times where we are on the same page and I have "given the devil his due", but honestly you've been coming across as a braggadocios kid who just wants attention, lately. Why else come onto a camera forum and post a listing for a 5K-6k sq ft house you're wanting to buy or mention that you're driving around the country in a $100K RV, when "hey, I drive around and stay in my own RV instead of hotels", would serve the same point? But not mentioning the six figure price tag wouldn't serve your goal of trying to establish your "superiority" via spending money. Or as it's otherwise sometimes know, "Conspicuous Consumption".

    Your math may be correct, but I'd agree that the totals are probably exaggerated. You're making these claims based on actually doing these things 100 times a year to arrive at these fantastical sounding "savings".

    Maybe you do have clients that just say, "here's $3K, make the shoot happen" and they don't care how you accomplish it, but mine(and a lot of others) don't. When they hire a two man crew, there better be a two-man crew show up. When they fork out the two man crew rate, it's for a two man crew. You show up by yourself, they're not paying you all of it and letting you pocket the audio portion. You're gonna get paid less, because the other portion was for another crew member. I've also been around enough corporate shoots to know that a lot of those hiring know what to expect when doling out money for a shoot and if they're paying those kinds of rates, and someone shows up solo, they know it's not for the good of the end product. If I was hiring a crew and I was quoted $3300 for a crew, I'm expecting at the bare minimum a two man crew, but possibly three. There are variables at play, though.

    Bottom line, it's your business and you can run it however you want and see fit to, but as a veteran of this industry, and if I don't know you and I hear this story, I'm thinking this guy is more worried about just making a buck off of me instead of taking care of my projects needs.
    I'm not super into making comments about other users on forums.

    I think Eric is a mix of fact and his wonky sense of humor. Not my style, not a fan of it, but I can just see it.

    I don't think every word he writes is fact. It's that humor mix.

    I'm more into using downvote or ignore.

    I don't get worked up enough to go on and on about somebody. If I did, I'd be asking myself why do I care so much about what somebody else is saying/doing if it doesn't directly impact me.


    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
    #27
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    3,871
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Stills2HDConvert View Post
    I'm not super into making comments about other users on forums.

    I think Eric is a mix of fact and his wonky sense of humor. Not my style, not a fan of it, but I can just see it.

    I don't think every word he writes is fact. It's that humor mix.

    I'm more into using downvote or ignore.

    I don't get worked up enough to go on and on about somebody. If I did, I'd be asking myself why do I care so much about what somebody else is saying/doing if it doesn't directly impact me.
    There is his sense of humor to take into account. I'm a huge smart-ass, myself and some of his posts, you have to appreciate a dry, smart-ass sense of humor to get. Some I think is funny, some I don't. But that can be said about most people. Not many of us are batting 1.000.

    It's not that his posts affect me directly, but there are people that come on here that may be new to all of this and then think that this is all SOP, when it's not.


    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
    #28
    Senior Member cpreston's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    1,390
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by KarlSutton View Post
    Any suggestions for 2-3 crew utilizing big source setups in small spaces like modest living rooms? That you can fly with?
    The Litemats are probably the easiest choice. Alternatively, a large or medium Chimera with either a Chimera triolet kit or a k5600 bug light will get you there in a small amount of space. The large chimera is a wonder for controlled soft lighting.


    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
    #29
    Senior Member Eric Coughlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    2,148
    Default
    You're probably right about overbragging. I've come into some nice things and the temptation is to brag about it but ultimately it probably annoys more than impresses many people, and as such should be toned down or eliminated.

    The reason I said "$100k RV" is because you made it sound like I was living like a bum, and if I'd just said "RV," well, bums often live in cheap run down vans, in which case you could still be thinking I'm living a bum life which had seemed to bother you back when I was sleeping in my SUV (even though it never bothered me to sleep in my SUV).

    I already stated I don't show up as a one-man-band when hired as a crew, so I don't know why you're restating why that's a bad and dishonest idea, because it's not something I do. You have a lot of network clients who are used to paying a certain rate for DP and crew and have certain crew expectations. The corporate world is different, where rates and crew expectations are all over the place.

    Does no one here ever get clients who can afford their normal rate, but cannot afford additional crew as well, yet want additional crew? Happens to me fairly often. And if they'd originally asked for crew included but at your normal rate for just you, then has suggesting doing the job as a one-man-band not ever happened? That's all I'm suggesting here. Otherwise, you have a few other options, either pass on the job, do that job at a significantly lower rate than your normal rates, or ask for more money, but most clients don't like to go far over budget.

    I'm only suggesting to the client to eliminate crew when they can't afford my rates with crew, and I also quote for just myself if a client doesn't specify needing crew, but when a client asks for crew and can afford my rates, then I'm happy to provide crew, which I slightly upcharge.

    Right now I have a client who said my rates are high for them after I quoted them a one-man-band interview setup, and when saying that, they also informed me they need four people miced at once for some four person talk show style interviews, at which point I tell them we'd most likely want at least an audio guy as me micing and monitoring four people while camera operating is a bit beyond the scope of what I'd recommend. But at this point, after we add on the audio guy to the budget, when they were struggling to meet my rate without the audio guy, I don't know if I'll be able to land the job.

    As far as this whole concept of crew providing superior quality, I simply disagree in many cases. If I'm setting up for an interview with or without a PA, and say it's a short walk to my car and I can bring as much gear as needed, the PA in no way improves the quality of the product I'm giving the client. Even a gaffer I feel generally in no way improves the quality as typically I don't feel the gaffer is better at lighting interviews than me, particularly if they're using my equipment, which I know better than them. Most of the time they're setting my lights up how I tell them to, which is exactly how I would have done it if I was on my own.

    Now sure, if you bring in additional equipment (like a grip truck and HMIs) with a skilled gaffer, then it can improve the product, but that's not what I'm talking about here. It's not uncommon that a client asks for a gaffer to use my equipment which I'm super familiar with for a basic interview, and if they're paying for it, I'm like, "Okay, I'll hire a gaffer," but I always feel it's a waste of money because the gaffer is just doing what I instruct them to do which I would have done on my own if they weren't there. And it gives zero benefit to the client or the product. I setup my lights before I hit record, so I'm simply not seeing Rob's idea that having a gaffer for an interview "allows the DP to focus on composition." The only way I can see that is say you're Hollywooding an LED light for a run n' gun interview and have to focus on composition while literally holding the light. But otherwise, perhaps Rob can elaborate how having setup lights an hour ago affects his ability to focus on composition while filming.

    Okay, so maybe setup is 10 minutes quicker with a PA, maybe, but given we typically have 1-2 hours to setup, the setups often don't need to be done in a hurry (at least for my shoots), so again, this is really of so little benefit. They just spent $250-$300 for a PA or $600 for a gaffer because they didn't want me to show up 10 minutes early and do the same thing. Okay. I don't understand that. And in many cases the PA doesn't know the gear (particularly for me who work out of state with crews I haven't worked with before) so they're just setting up light stands but beyond that I still need to do 90% of the work, meanwhile, I may have some chit chat with the PA which may slow things down, at which point, in my experience, having a PA (again, when the shoot location is not super far from parking) is often not faster or providing a better product. And if it's not faster and doesn't provide a better product, then what are they doing aside from costing the client more money or taking money out of what we're making? Well, we now have less stuff to carry.

    I just often see people complain about schlepping gear, and I don't get the big deal here, as I typically don't mind schlepping gear. Do none of you workout? You go to the gym and you lift hundreds of pounds, and you call that healthy exercise and you feel good about it, but you drag around 100 lbs of video equipment at your job, and suddenly you need a PA to help you do that and feel like you're some low life videographer if you have to do it all.

    Now if we bring some math into the equation here and say a PA makes the shoot 10 minutes quicker, and they cost $200, that's essentially $600 per hour of time saved, which is beyond what most DPs are making, at which point it's more cost efficient to have the DP work 10 minutes longer, not to mention most DPs go off of day rates so if the client wasn't planning to max out their day rate then the 10 minutes is essentially free. And from my POV, if I'm saving $200 from not hiring a PA out of my pocket, and it means I need to do 10 extra minutes of schlepping, but at $600 per hour, then I'm happy to make $600 per hour to do 10 minutes of schlepping. You act like I'm pinching pennies and going far out of my way to make $200, but the extra work I have to do is so minimal and $600 per hour is considerably more than I typically make, so it's well worth it to me.

    And there are other issues with PAs and gaffers, such as they're more likely to damage my equipment than I am, and a very common and annoying thing when others use my lighting gear is they're constantly unplugging power cables which I prefer to keep plugged into the lights, and then those cables get misplaced, which then slows down the next shoot, they repack gear differently than how I do so again things get misplaced and have to be found, etc.

    As far as what someone said about the DP not being the one to provide the crew to the client, in my marketing I personally list that I also provide crewing services, as I feel clients are more likely to hire you if you're a one-stop-shop that means they don't have to keep doing a lot of work to find crew, as you've got it covered from there, as well as often knowing the DP will get crew he knows and trusts more than whatever random people they'd get. I upcharge the crew rates typically around $100, which unless it's a multi-day shoot, doesn't add up to much. The primary time I really do well on crewing profits is when I'm hiring a DP to do another shoot when I'm double booked, but I'm also often getting gear rental on top of that.

    I'm all for crew when needed. I had a producer wanting to hire me for a feature film and he didn't think a gaffer was necessary, and I kept reiterating that while my website does market myself as a one-man-band, I don't work as a one-man-band for feature films and a feature film needs a gaffer. But it's these super simple interview shoots that I feel are often over-crewed, and it bothers me when a client insists on an in my opinion over-sized crew, but needs to talk down my rate to fit their budget.

    So, no, I'm not suggesting to eliminate crew when it would significantly lower the quality of the video; I'm suggesting to eliminate unnecessary crew that provides little or no benefit to a production when that's the only way that the client will be able to hire you at a rate you're comfortable working at.
    Last edited by Eric Coughlin; 12-14-2019 at 08:55 PM.


    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
    #30
    Senior Member JPNola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    New Orleans USA
    Posts
    1,377
    Default
    If I budgeted for crew accommodation it isn't only because it is the right thing to do. It is also because I want my crew well-rested and, most importantly, safe. I don't want crew sleeping in a van down by the river. If I learned that a crew member pocketed the budget I allocated for their well-being and for the good of the production, I'd be pissed. Unless I learned it was because of some personal financial difficulty such as gambling debt or personal medical expense, I probably would not hire that person again. If they didn't inform me in advance that they were going to pocket the money it would be shady of them. It would be unprofessional of them. I'd be horrified if a young female crew member slept in a parking lot all night instead of using the money I set aside for her to be safe and sound. That just isn't cool.


    "I just often see people complain about schlepping gear, and I don't get the big deal here, as I typically don't mind schlepping gear."

    I don't mind it either but that doesn't mean it is always smart. You've only been doing this for 9 years, correct? All that schlepping takes a toll after 20, 30 years. If you can pass off some schlepping to a P.A. then do it. Besides, the client might want to talk to you about the next setup and they can't do that if you are schlepping gear that you could have instead let the crew schlep. Feature film cam ops hand the rig off to a Grip as soon as cut is called, right? They do that in order to save their bodies and in order that they can be attentive to the next shot. Even if they are an ultra-fit marathon runner who benches 300 lbs, they let someone else do the schlepping. No machismo, no ego. They just work smart.


    Work smarter, not harder- minimize schlepping where you can. Save your body for the shooting. And work safe- don't sleep in a vehicle when a room is being provided for you. Sleeping in a vehicle was all fine and well and sorta fun when we were college kids but we're adult professionals now.

    If I come across here as preachy or dik-headed, that isn't my intent. Most of what I "preach" I learned from others more experienced than myself. I've made more than my share of mistakes over the years and done many a dumb thing on shoots. It's a small miracle that I've been able to stay in this biz for as long as I have and have never had to get a real job. Paid to play. It's a great thing if one call pull it off.
    Big sources matter.


    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •