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    #31
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    B&H has been sued several times; the ones I've heard about have been about labor practices. Remember a couple years ago?

    B&H Photo Will Pay $3.2M to Settle Department of Labor Lawsuit
    https://hyperallergic.com/396180/bh-...labor-lawsuit/

    And a similar case and settlement, IIRC, in 2007/2008. And perhaps others. So anyway, perhaps regulators are keeping an eye on them, or disgruntled employees are acting as whistleblowers.

    It's business and presumably the AG and B&H will figure out when to push and when to settle. And it looks like the NY AG regularly files suits over tax issues.
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    Jim Feeley
    POV Media


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    #32
    Senior Member Cary Knoop's Avatar
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    Chances are that B&H will settle and survive.


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    #33
    DVXuser Sponsor Jim Martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary Knoop View Post
    Rebate = a return of part of the original payment for some service or merchandise. You got to tax on the original payment.

    So this case seems pretty clear to me.

    I think the main problem is the 'you got to offer a minimum advertised price or else' distributor practice!

    In a free market, manufacturers/distributors should not interfere with how retailers price their products!
    In relation to your MAP statement, before there was MAP pricing, B & H would drop prices on items to cost (or below) so the other regular dealers could not compete....it was random but always seemed to be the current popular cameras/items. So with no tax (until this year) and no MAP pricing, all the regular dealers who actually did the selling, lost sales to them. I often had people come in, get all the info and basically decide which one to get, leave saying they'll be back, then come in a few days later and ask me to set up and show them how to use the camera they just bought from B & H!
    I'm glad there is MAP pricing and the tax issue has been resolved....not just for our industry, but for all smaller retail operations that were getting killed by Amazon.....an even playing field.
    Also, in regards to their 30% credit card w/no tax, they are banking on you not paying it off within 30 days.
    Just me personal thoughts....

    Jim Martin


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    #34
    Senior Member stoneinapond's Avatar
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    ^
    +1


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    #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Martin View Post
    In relation to your MAP statement, before there was MAP pricing, B & H would drop prices on items to cost (or below) so the other regular dealers could not compete....

    Jim Martin
    Well, you know, Jim, when I was in retail, I hated losing a sale to an Internet/mail order based retailer or a membership store such as Costco or Sam's Club .... but, goshdarnit, they were great for the consumer.


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    #36
    Senior Member Cary Knoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Martin View Post
    I'm glad there is MAP pricing and the tax issue has been resolved...
    I am glad the tax issue is resolved as well, it was unfair for out of state retailers to have an advantage.

    But I completely disagree with MAP, to me, this belongs in the category cartels, price-fixing and other such types of "gentlemen's" agreements.

    People in favor of MAP effectively do not want any competition in the market, everything is a fixed manufacturer set price.


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    #37
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    When I was selling the in-demand electronics in LA, the idea was to bring someone in the store and negotiate in person. That's how car dealerships operate. Some may give you a quote over the phone but what they really want is to have a potential customer on the premises but if someone wants to find a good bargain and knows what he is doing, it's not that difficult to come to the store that will negotiate and get a better than the MAP deal. The MAP's have always been around and the outfits that wanted to get around them advertised all sort of odd sounding promotions - "eligible for the special 20% in-store discount" or some other line. In LA, Adray's was famous for it. In Florida, BrandsMart does the same thing and does it very successfully too.

    A smaller size retailer can't generate that type of traffic and so they have to hold their margins higher, offer special services, offer the higher end gear, etc. But there will always be discounters around. Adray's management got scared in the early 1990's that the "full service" retailers such as Good Guys and Silo (on top of the existing Circuit City and Best Buy) would drive it out of business, so they dropped their casual warehouse approach and decided to compete with big chains directly. Naturally, it killed them.


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    #38
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    When Adam Smith passed away, he was actually in the middle of writing "The Wealth of Nations II: MAPs and the Neuvo-Merchantalist Conundrum." He never finished it, so we're left with no guidance on this.
    Last edited by Seanik; 11-24-2019 at 01:53 PM.


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    #39
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    When I was selling the in-demand electronics in LA, the idea was to bring someone in the store and negotiate in person. That's how car dealerships operate. Some may give you a quote over the phone but what they really want is to have a potential customer on the premises but if someone wants to find a good bargain and knows what he is doing, it's not that difficult to come to the store that will negotiate and get a better than the MAP deal. The MAP's have always been around and the outfits that wanted to get around them advertised all sort of odd sounding promotions - "eligible for the special 20% in-store discount" or some other line. In LA, Adray's was famous for it. In Florida, BrandsMart does the same thing and does it very successfully too.

    A smaller size retailer can't generate that type of traffic and so they have to hold their margins higher, offer special services, offer the higher end gear, etc. But there will always be discounters around. Adray's management got scared in the early 1990's that the "full service" retailers such as Good Guys and Silo (on top of the existing Circuit City and Best Buy) would drive it out of business, so they dropped their casual warehouse approach and decided to compete with big chains directly. Naturally, it killed them.
    My family, who has been in the retail business for 65 years, operated successfully for most of their existence, on much smaller margins(~10%) and lower selling prices than the big stores, because we had much less overhead(and vastly superior customer service, care and knowledge). From my point of view, MAP did nothing for the little guy. As a matter of fact, my Mom had the manager of one of the big box stores call her and yell at her and try to tell her that she couldn't sell for what she was. He was pissed, because they had that stupid "we'll meet/beat any price and refund 10% of the difference" policy. Ended up costing them ~$2,000. I don't think anyone has one of those policies anymore. Probably because the margins have had to be cut so much over the years to stay competitive, so there is no room to absorb losses like that. That tells you the exorbitant mark-up the big stores were operating under, back in the day.


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    #40
    Senior Member Eric Coughlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    My family, who has been in the retail business for 65 years, operated successfully for most of their existence, on much smaller margins(~10%) and lower selling prices than the big stores, because we had much less overhead(and vastly superior customer service, care and knowledge). From my point of view, MAP did nothing for the little guy. As a matter of fact, my Mom had the manager of one of the big box stores call her and yell at her and try to tell her that she couldn't sell for what she was. He was pissed, because they had that stupid "we'll meet/beat any price and refund 10% of the difference" policy. Ended up costing them ~$2,000. I don't think anyone has one of those policies anymore. Probably because the margins have had to be cut so much over the years to stay competitive, so there is no room to absorb losses like that. That tells you the exorbitant mark-up the big stores were operating under, back in the day.




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