Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 33
  1. Collapse Details
    Scorsese and Coppola on "superhero" films
    #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    6,223
    Default
    Scorcese calls the superhero films a "theme park", but gets some pushback.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...cklash-1245730

    Then Coppola comes to his support.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...icable-1248929

    Edit - I managed to misspell "Scorsese".
    Last edited by DLD; 10-21-2019 at 05:54 PM.


    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
    #2
    Default
    The whole debate is sort of funny to me because big FX vehicles have always prioritized spectacle over drama and theme. Superhero films are just a more extreme example. I don't like how they are sucking the oxygen out of the industry and crowding out other types of films. And I don't respect them as an artform or particularly enjoy them myself. But it seems silly to say that they are "not cinema."


    5 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
    #3
    Senior Member Batutta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Planet 10
    Posts
    7,481
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    I don't like how they are sucking the oxygen out of the industry and crowding out other types of films.
    This is the root of the issue. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think what really has gotten under Scorsese and Coppola's skin, and why they have objected so strongly to "Marvel type" films is that they've colonized the theatrical release business. There's not any room at all for bigger budgeted adult oriented fare of the type Coppola and Scorsese made their names on, and they've felt that. The economics just aren't there any more. It's so expensive to make and market a wide release movie you basically have to make a mass appeal theme park movie to make a significant profit. There are some other profitable genres (namely horror) that can be done on a low budget, but for the most part this limits your gross, and it can be argued they are just another type of "ride" move built primarily on spectacle. Streaming and cable has a different economic model which is why the action for high quality dramatic material has shifted there. Streaming survives on repeat business, and the only reliable way to do that is to keep supplying good content. A film only has to be enticing enough to lure enough people into the theater once, so they jam pack it with sensational stuff that looks great in a trailer, not caring much about the quality of the rest of it. You can't do that with a TV series. It has to have good stories and interesting characters or people will stop watching. And they need to keep you watching. If you leave halfway through a theater release, the studio doesn't care, because they already gots your money.
    Last edited by Batutta; 10-21-2019 at 09:27 AM.
    "Money doesn't make films...You just do it and take the initiative." - Werner Herzog


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
    #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    6,223
    Default
    Which is why the "Irishman" is a mixed theaters + Netflix release. The production costs were very high but Netflix can contain the outlays on marketing or use film marketing as the service marketing.


    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
    #5
    Senior Member Batutta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Planet 10
    Posts
    7,481
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    Which is why the "Irishman" is a mixed theaters + Netflix release. The production costs were very high but Netflix can contain the outlays on marketing or use film marketing as the service marketing.
    I can probably guess that the only reason they did a theatrical release was because Scorsese demanded it in his contract. Other than qualifying for the Oscars there isn't much financial incentive for them to do so.
    "Money doesn't make films...You just do it and take the initiative." - Werner Herzog


    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
    #6
    Moderator David Jimerson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    27,918
    Default
    It seems to me that occasionally the Scorseses and Coppolas forget that the industry they're in is for-profit, and that Oscars are that for-profit industry giving awards to itself, not gold stars at art camp.

    For a time, what they did was profitable. Things change.

    Are they right about the art? Maybe. But Big Film isn't about art and never has been, except as an exploitable niche market.

    Perhaps the time will come again when what they do captures the movie-going dollars. Perhaps it won't.

    But I can tell you this -- the only thing that gets me into a theater these days is something worthy of 100 feet of screen, and that the audience will shut up and watch. If I want something contemplative, the better place by far is my own movie room at home.
    LEARN FILMMAKING - DIGITAL STREAMING AND DOWNLOADS OF GREAT TRAINING PROGRAMS!



    WRITING FOR TELEVISION ARTICLE | "ASSUMPTION BLUES" FILM NOIR RADIO PLAY | "BLUE SCARLET" RADIO PLAY



    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
    #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    302
    Default
    "But I can tell you this -- the only thing that gets me into a theater these days is something worthy of 100 feet of screen, and that the audience will shut up and watch. If I want something contemplative, the better place by far is my own movie room at home."
    I grew up in nyc and worked at all the revival houses as a young man. I went to see the Joker recently - just to see what all the jabber was about. By the time the film started I was exhausted from the trailers and commercials. Back in the day when they started to play commercials - i would boo. Some peeps joined - most didn't. I watched Local Hero last night - a fav of mine. And I miss those times of watching a film like that with an audience. Frankly Scorsese and his pals are some of the main causes of this type of filmmaking. Scorsese couldn't show a family having breakfast without the camera being flung thru the damn window and it bouncing off the walls. The famous scene in Goodfellas with "I'm funny to you?" Scorsese wouldn't shut up about it for years. "Just 2 shots. Simple." As if he was suddenly Bella Tarr. Anyway - random thoughts before my coffee. ps - Scorsese would always say "I'm the type of filmmaker who wants to put a ring in yer nose and have ya look at this and that. I don't want you roaming around making yer own movie." Like Hitchcock. Hey I love his movies - but I know on my death bed his images will not be flickering away in the old noggin, but Tarkovsky, Ray, Fellini, Leigh, Cassavettes, Forsyth, etc. The humanist who left me alone in the dark.
    Last edited by kevin baggott; 10-21-2019 at 11:58 AM.


    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
    #8
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    The whole debate is sort of funny to me because big FX vehicles have always prioritized spectacle over drama and theme. Superhero films are just a more extreme example. I don't like how they are sucking the oxygen out of the industry and crowding out other types of films. And I don't respect them as an artform or particularly enjoy them myself. But it seems silly to say that they are "not cinema."
    I agree.

    This has happened before. In 1983 William Goldman said that movies like Raiders of the Lost Ark were comic-book movies. His taste was all the more inscrutable because he said his favorite movie was Gunga Din. I started to watch it and saw little difference.

    I love Raiders, but I also love heavy dramas like Dead Man Walking and Smoke. I always thought of them as different genres of cinema, not that some were cinema and some not.

    I don't enjoy most of the Marvel movies, except for the first Iron Man. I recently watched the latest Spider-Man movie and thought it was wretched. But I would never say it was not cinema.


    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
    #9
    Senior Member JPNola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    New Orleans USA
    Posts
    1,377
    Default
    I wonder what Scorcese thinks of Wizard of Oz. Or rather, what he would say of it were it released today.
    Big sources matter.


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
    #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    West of the Pecos
    Posts
    2,321
    Default
    Leave it to Martin to state the obvious. No shinola Sherlock. They're based on comics and made for kids and young adults. He has had more than his day in the sun. To be picking on those films because he can't get wide distribution for his movie is low class and desperate.


    Reply With Quote
     

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •