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    It's not possible to get a downsampled (6k to 4k) RAW Image right?

    I don't need those big files...just to get real 4k.
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Liam Hall View Post
    Good post James. What are the effeciencies you see with the FX9 over the Canon?
    How about this. What if i use both cameras for real projects and get back to you? I’ve only played around with them, and thought about the things i like in each one. My personal preference is leaning torwards the C500ii. But if i ever start working in my previous work again, i may lean towards the Fx9.

    Seeing your later comment about the work around for the manual audio controls, i am not certain what you are looking for in considering efficiencies. And certainly my hypotheticals are easy mention alternatives. Then we’re just chasing our tails.

    The audio controls being on the same side as the operator is kind of a professional standard in some fields of work. Luckily, the Canon has a low cost solution for that. And the DC tap on the wooden camera thing is not ideal, but at least the NP battery is there in case the unlikely happens. Also that means the batteries are now hot swappable.

    If these were the only two cameras in the world, i might be more favourable towards the C500ii. But when i think of reasons that i would choose the Canon over the Fx9, then i start comparing the C500ii to Red, Venice, and Arri. The argument becomes diluted when we shift parameters.
    Last edited by James0b57; 02-20-2020 at 01:55 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mantas View Post
    It's not possible to get a downsampled (6k to 4k) RAW Image right?

    I don't need those big files...just to get real 4k.
    .
    As far as I know, that would be beyond the c500II's capabilities. the FX9...not sure. A product manager stated plainly that it would not do a 6k output ever, but they have a 16bit raw extension unit planned...so is that for just s35? I don't know enough about raw encoding to say whether a pre-bayer image can be downsampled or not (you'd think so...but...), whether the processors in these cameras are macho enough, is anyone's guess.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mantas View Post
    It's not possible to get a downsampled (6k to 4k) RAW Image right?...
    Technically speaking, the downsampling could be done in the recorder. Raw is one-for-one. This is why Nikon Z6 line-skips. Atomos Ninja5 doesn't downsample. It remains to be seen what S1H does with Raw, if it ever gets there.

    How FX-9 will do this also remains to be seen.


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    DSLRs can downsample raw in camera: https://diglloyd.com/prem/s/DAP/Cano...-overview.html , should be possible to do in a video camera. However, this may be downsampling by dropping pixels vs. blending (filtering), so (detail) aliasing can be an issue. If simply downsampling the R, G, and B Bayer pixels separately, resulting in a new lower resolution Bayer image, color aliasing may be an issue. Not clear if this patent fully addresses the issue (didn't read in depth): https://patents.google.com/patent/CN103716606A/en . The answer is yes, it's possible, however not clear re: final quality.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    Technically speaking, the downsampling could be done in the recorder. Raw is one-for-one. This is why Nikon Z6 line-skips. Atomos Ninja5 doesn't downsample. It remains to be seen what S1H does with Raw, if it ever gets there.

    How FX-9 will do this also remains to be seen.
    The Sony F5 and F55 can record 2K raw from their full 4k sensors. Iím not sure why nothing else seems to offer that same raw downsampling capability.


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    Blackmagic's UMP does. (4.6K-ish sensor though.)

    Z CAM's S6 (6K sensor) has a S16 ZRAW mode.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Grug View Post
    The Sony F5 and F55 can record 2K raw from their full 4k sensors. I’m not sure why nothing else seems to offer that same raw downsampling capability.
    Oh, a bunch of cameras downsample (Z6, A7III, S1, GH-5, and going as far back as Samsung NX1 from 2015). However, the manufacturers have a dilemma. If it's labeled Raw, it can't be processed (blended) but it can be line-skipped. That produces moire, as 6K-to-4K has to skip every other line. That's why all those Z6 moire tests spotted it, albeit after blowing the image up.

    But, if they do full readout 6K, they may overwhelm the limited processing/bandwidth of a consumer tier monitor-recorder.

    I have no idea how F55 downsamples from 4K to 2K. It could be by every method described by John (jcs) above. Obviously, being a high end pro camera, it had enough ability to deliver a decent image. But I remember a long defunct YouTube channel with a review of 80D, which downsampled from 6K to 2K (full sensor readout, no crop, insane line skipping/pixel binning to get from ~ 17.6 MPX down to 2.2) and the moire was good enough for 1960's Pink Floyd videos.


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    Jaime Valles gets credit for almost single handedly spec’cing the Canon C500ii for canon. This video seems almost like a blue print for the C500ii:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tStmKpGrp24

    (Fyi, it’s a good thing. Everything the ‘fuhrer’ has on his wish list for Canon comes true in the C500ii)
    Last edited by James0b57; 02-21-2020 at 10:28 AM.


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    Senior Member Liam Hall's Avatar
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    Threadkill.
    New Website: www.liamhall.net
    TWITTER: @FilmLiam
    INSTAGRAM: @picsbyliam


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