Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 31 to 39 of 39
  1. Collapse Details
    #31
    Senior Member marvinhello's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    GTA, Canada
    Posts
    887
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_E View Post
    I have a feeling that the DR has many qualifiers to it. Absolute DR might be 18 stops, but several of those might not be usable. SO now you get down to 15 or 16 usable stops of "clean" output. And while this has been in development for years (publicly) this is still a version 1 for production. Wait until they get down the road with the tools to make these imagers, mass produced version 3 might really have 18 stops of clean images.

    Also, can anyone say what level Fuji still has in this? I think they were working on the organic coating material and method for mass production, but could be wrong. There are a pile of people waiting for an X series camera with organic CMOS sensor. I know they kind of want to cut free of Sony sensors, and partnership with Panasonic would make that possible.
    Remember the DR bottleneck is ADC precision.

    ARRI Alexa uses dual 14bit ADC to create a 16bit linear Bayer, so the absolute DR is 16 stops. But due to off-chip ADC and high dark current, usable DR is 14 stops.


    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
    #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    2,286
    Default
    I'm not sure ADC resolution is the only factor. You still need to be able to hold photons (or really electrons) to get the brightest levels. And also be able to sample the low end accurately for "near zero" voltages.

    One thing they were really looking at is all the machine vision and cell phone cameras. Do you know how much money is in machine vision for automated inspection systems? And of course the cell phone market has really been a hot market if you have the next big imager tech. These high end cameras are all peanuts compared to those two markets.


    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
    #33
    Senior Member JPNola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    New Orleans USA
    Posts
    1,397
    Default
    Well, seeing as I thought at first glance it said "The orgasmic sensor is here.", this is a bit disappointing.
    Big sources matter.


    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
    #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6,753
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_E View Post
    I'm not sure ADC resolution is the only factor. You still need to be able to hold photons (or really electrons) to get the brightest levels. And also be able to sample the low end accurately for "near zero" voltages.

    One thing they were really looking at is all the machine vision and cell phone cameras. Do you know how much money is in machine vision for automated inspection systems? And of course the cell phone market has really been a hot market if you have the next big imager tech. These high end cameras are all peanuts compared to those two markets.
    The “prestige tech” invariably leads the large commerce development. Think of them as the two sides of Research & Development.
    Mitch Gross
    Cinema Product Manager
    Panasonic System Solutions Company


    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
    #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    6,317
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_E View Post
    I'm not sure ADC resolution is the only factor. You still need to be able to hold photons (or really electrons) to get the brightest levels. And also be able to sample the low end accurately for "near zero" voltages....
    ARRI's dual readout works sort of like a multiple driver audio speaker where you get the low end (aka bass) from a subwoofer, medium from the midrange and the high tones from tweeters. In photo/video, a sensor can hold 18-20 stops but not at the same time, so one takes two - smartphones will often take three -shots at different exposures and combines them into one. That's how one gets HDR in stills. The difference in video is that the shutter speed is limited, so multiple exposure requires a great deal of trickery. ARRI's method seems to be working the best - Red tried multiple exposures too but it needed to blend frames if there was a moving subject - but it also seems a bit expensive because two data streams have to be sent out, then stored, then processed into one. That required a whole lot of complicated circuitry and a lot of memory and processing power. Which is why Alexa ain't exactly cheap.


    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
    #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington
    Posts
    392
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    ARRI's dual readout works sort of like a multiple driver audio speaker where you get the low end (aka bass) from a subwoofer, medium from the midrange and the high tones from tweeters. In photo/video, a sensor can hold 18-20 stops but not at the same time, so one takes two - smartphones will often take three -shots at different exposures and combines them into one. That's how one gets HDR in stills.
    No, not quite.

    As described here: https://www.arri.com/en/learn-help/t...y/alev-sensors Arri's dual gain is two different amplification settings from the same image, so it's more like the dual ADC method that Zaxcom, Sound Devices, and Zoom are using in their 32-bit audio recorders.

    Red's approach using multiple exposures is actually using multiple exposures, which doubles the data rate.

    Arri's is more like the dual base ISO from the Varicam, only running both amplification circuits at the same time and combining the resulting pair of images into one using techniques similar to HDR. It does still require a lot of processing power, of course.


    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
    #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    6,317
    Default
    This is from October. The NHK presentation on their work on the 8K organic sensor.



    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
    #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    6,317
    Default
    And now Sony's in on the organic bandwagon.

    http://image-sensors-world.blogspot....ic-sensor.html


    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
    #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington
    Posts
    392
    Default
    And layered like a Foveon, too.


    Reply With Quote
     

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •