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    #11
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    Just so we're clear no one is against patents here. Its the twisting and turning of a patent to such a ridiculous degree that it hurts consumers and innovation. A medical company trying to patent dosage amounts as reported in the nytimes article, in order to be extract a fee is ridiculous. And the courts agreed. Read the article not your muscle reflex.

    Most every camera company now has their own raw codec, Canon Raw, Braw, Prores raw. But because no one needs RedCode Raw Reds not happy because they want their fee for a Red defined compression ratio patent which to me is ridiculous and it seems so does the Apple expert Cliff Reader.

    In 2018 217 million iPhones were shipped worldwide. If apple wants to implement prores raw in their phones in the future with a certain compression ratio and have to pay a fee, and I don’t know what those contracts fees say, but it’s obviously a considerable amount of money so much so that apple is willing to fight that patent.
    Last edited by mico; 08-16-2019 at 03:33 PM.


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    #12
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    As someone who has been accused of being creative, I stand behind this video: Everything Is A Remix (37:30)


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    #13
    Senior Member Grug's Avatar
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    The point of a patent is to allow innovators to profit from their inventions without undue copying. Once the patent expires, then the concept is fair game for everyone else to use. Thatís where public domain benefits everyone.

    Has Redís patenting of compressed raw recording in digital cinema cameras stifled other companies abilities to implement the same concept? Absolutely. But thatís the entire reason for patents existing.

    Red have successfully managed to protect their patent against challenges from big competitors on multiple occasions. And just because Apple is the biggest yet, that by no means guarantees theyíll succeed where others have repeatedly failed.

    Red saw the future of motion imaging, and got there well in advance of everyone else. That gives them the advantage.

    I think the speed of development in the digital age does make the 25 year lifespan of a regular patent something worthy of reassessing (for the sake of upholding the broader purpose of public domain). But thatís a separate issue.

    Itíll be VERY interesting to see how this unfolds, and whether Apple can persevere were everyone else has failed.


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    #14
    Senior Member roxics's Avatar
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    I don't believe in software patents at all. So to hell with all of them.


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    #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grug View Post
    The point of a patent is to allow innovators to profit from their inventions without undue copying [...] Has Red’s patenting of compressed raw recording in digital cinema cameras stifled other companies abilities to implement the same concept? Absolutely. But that’s the entire reason for patents existing.
    Are you saying that had Red not made Redcode, no one would have compressed RAW with wavelets?

    The math behind wavelets dates back to 1910, with the Haar function and matrix.
    There's quite a few papers about using it to compress various things in the 1990s.
    JPEG2000 came out in 2000.
    Cineform RAW came out in 2002, using wavelets to compress RAW.

    For something to be patentworthy it should be (a) new and (b) not obvious.

    Clearly it was not new. Is there something in Red's patent that differentiates it from its forebears, and if so, was it non-obvious?

    And I think it should be obvious that by obvious they mean to other specialists in the field. Of course the wavelet compression of RAW images was not obvious to you or me, because we are not specialists in image compression. But for someone whose job is to work on image compression, I would not be surprised if several of them would "invent" it independently of each other.

    It is not unlike how you, specializing in photography, might sound like some sort of genius were you to describe the concept of an F-stop to someone who knows nothing about photography. And furthermore to you it might not seem that clever to try to preserve highlights by underexposing by a stop or two, and then lightening the image in post. Is that patentworthy? Well, Ken Rockwell claimed it is.

    A patent is not dibs. It is not meant to reward whoever applies first, if others in the field would have come up with the same idea on their own. Often they already have.


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    #16
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    Next article. Jinnitech opens up Komodo finds its a plastic cage surrounding a z-cam s6 an and a black magic hdmi to sdi 6g converter. Jim and Jarred are furious: we have actually made a propriatery extra short hdmicable to fit inside the komodo kitcamera. (it took us three hours to solder that cable someone has to pay for the R&D) Red has also patended the unfair usage of made in america. So if you want to rebrand chinese made stuff and put them in a packaging you made yourself this is no longer legal. The process is called Redding and if you are interested beeing able to do this you can contact our layers to negotiate a fee, Said Camera magnate Jim Jannard before putting on his oakley branded soldering glasses to make another super short hdmi-cable. someone heard him mutter that he wished for the good old days when one could just go out in the forrest and milk some snakes for oil.

    Sorry I couldnt help myself If anyone from the us patentoffice reads this it is a joke. If you dont know what a joke is it is when you use words to present a scenario so foreign to the reader that it makes them laugh. If you don't get the concept its a little bit like the work you are doing.
    Last edited by Teodor Miljevic; 08-17-2019 at 06:30 AM.


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    #17
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    double post sorry


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    #18
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    Man someone updated reds wiki page:” After a failed lawsuit by RED against the maker of JinniMag, a third party copy of the RED Mini Mag, it was revealed that RED Digital Cinema Cameras have been lying to their customers and possibly obtained their patents by deceiving the USPTO.[33]”

    “In May 2019, Apple Inc. filed a lawsuit against RED.COM, LLC over several patents relating to digital cinema cameras and sensor processing.”
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Digital_Cinema


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    #19
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    [QUOTE=. It is not meant to reward whoever applies first, .....[/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately it is close to this. However the patent can be questioned if what is described can be shown to be in the public domain before the application date. That includes the same patent in another country within the agreed grace time ( usually one year for application in other countries )


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    #20
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    It seems like one of those Black Swan events for Red.


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