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    #41
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James0b57 View Post
    A few people are so upset about “big business Red”, when Sony, Panasonic, and Apple are so mich bigger.

    Red, aside from a connection to a guy that used to own Oakley, is a small company.
    I think it’s kind of a “jilted/cheating lover” type thing. RED was supposed to be the rebel underdog upstart on the side of the little guy and good & right and now that they are being portrayed in the negative light of being just another evil greedy company, some are reveling in their apparent perceived soon to be downfall.

    But look at the Sony F5 4K debacle a few years ago. Sony out and out looked everyone directly in their eyes and lied to them. Not just bending the truth, straight up lied. AND got caught hard. NO ONE talks about it today and people still throw money at them and buy their cameras like they’re going out of style.
    Last edited by Run&Gun; 08-21-2019 at 08:39 AM.


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    #42
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlin View Post
    Of course. People envious of Red owners want to attack Red because they think that the fact that everyone wants one but no one else offers 8K somehow implies that Red is hindering the industry?

    Besides, if there were any legitimacy to this bogus suit, Sony would have won when it sued Red...
    Don’t know anyone personally who’s envious of a RED owner. I’m actually glad I’ve never needed to buy one. And RED having 8K and no one else isn’t why some think they’re holding back the industry. It’s about RED claiming that no one else can record RAW internally in a camera. Personally, I think it’s a BS patent and falls under the obviousness argument and that it should have never been allowed to begin with.

    And just because Sony failed, doesn’t mean Apple will(doesn’t mean they won’t, either). History is littered with legal cases that everyone thought or knew were 100% going to end up one way and they went the other. Show of hands, who remembers OJ’s murder trial?


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    #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    Don’t know anyone personally who’s envious of a RED owner.
    You must not pay much attention to the forums then...

    They don't admit it, but the fact that there are so many people clamoring for 8K recording that they really don't need makes it quite clear.

    And no, I'm not pretending that *I* need 8K either, because I don't.


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    #44
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlin View Post
    You must not pay much attention to the forums then...

    They don't admit it, but the fact that there are so many people clamoring for 8K recording that they really don't need makes it quite clear.

    And no, I'm not pretending that *I* need 8K either, because I don't.
    I do read a lot of them. That’s why I said “personally”.

    If I, or most of the people I work with, needed one, we’d buy one.

    But the forums and internet in general is full of people that don’t do this professionally and RED cameras are seen as an aspirational pinnacle that they can never afford or will attain.
    Last edited by Run&Gun; 08-21-2019 at 09:23 AM.


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    #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    I do read a lot of them. That’s why I said “personally”.

    If I, or most of the people I work with, needed one, we’d buy one.

    I do know several... though I know a lot more people who own Reds but haven't any talent whose work looks like it was shot with a GoPro attached to a cat.

    But the forums and internet in general is full of people that don’t do this professionally and RED cameras are seen as an aspirational pinnacle that they can never afford or will attain.
    It's a large portion of the indie community actually... people who would rather blame their gear for the low quality of their footage...


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    #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlin View Post
    It's a large portion of the indie community actually... people who would rather blame their gear for the low quality of their footage...
    Nothing can fix lazy or stupid, the RED cameras certainly can't fix horrible shooting conditions. I'm sure having a pile of pixels and ability to push the "developing" really hard helps, but can only go so far.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_E View Post
    Nothing can fix lazy or stupid, the RED cameras certainly can't fix horrible shooting conditions. I'm sure having a pile of pixels and ability to push the "developing" really hard helps, but can only go so far.
    My point exactly.


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    #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlin View Post

    Besides, if there were any legitimacy to this bogus suit, Sony would have won when it sued Red...
    Your understanding of what happened in the lawsuit differs from mine. I think if there had been any merit to Red's original bogus lawsuit against Sony thousands of Venice, F65/F55/F5 and FS700,FS7/FS5 cameras would have been destroyed. Yet 6 years later many of us still shooting with the very same cameras that Red demanded Sony smash or smelt.

    https://www.theverge.com/2013/2/14/3...ession-patents

    The lawsuit calls for a sales injunction, the destruction of existing infringing cameras, and damages to the value of lost profits. It specifically names the F65, F5, and F55
    Last edited by Gary T; 08-21-2019 at 11:53 AM.


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    #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary T View Post
    Your understanding of what happened in the lawsuit differs from mine. I think if there had been any merit to Red's original bogus lawsuit against Sony thousands of Venice, F65/F55/F5 and FS700,FS7/FS5 cameras would have been destroyed. Yet 6 years later many of us still shooting with the very same cameras that Red demanded Sony smash or smelt.

    https://www.theverge.com/2013/2/14/3...ession-patents
    And Sony developed its own raw codec for cameras like Venice...

    Most of the patent infringement out there are quite frivolous, and it's really depressing how many of the patents themselves are complete hogwash (anyone remember Amazon's patent on photographing products on a seamless white background?).

    Red's has stood up to a lot of challenges over the years, so I doubt that questioning its validity is worth the bother, so it's probably just the usual sabre-rattling that typifies most of these suits.


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    #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlin View Post
    And Sony developed its own raw codec for cameras like Venice...
    Venice uses the same RAW codecs as the F55 that Red tried to force Sony to destroy. Had Red won their lawsuit Venice presumably would been on their destroy list just like the F55 and F5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlin View Post
    Most of the patent infringement out there are quite frivolous, and it's really depressing how many of the patents themselves are complete hogwash.
    I think it's quite telling that Red apparently didn't get anything they wanted in the lawsuit they initiated against Sony.


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