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    #11
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Brown View Post
    Again. A camera with no limits is the one I want.
    It’s called life. Go live it.


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    #12
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Anyway, if the responses to this thread are any indication, then i am surprised we even have the cameras we have at this point.


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    #13
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    WRT the ergonomics, it seems that the market has spoken on the high end cameras that will be supported by crews and AC's.

    But there's also a miniaturization trend, which has worked in the electronics so far but not in lenses on the high end. That's probably the next step. Zeiss Otus 55mm (~ $3,700) is about a kilo, with the cine mod adding half a pound or so, and one'd have to do some major stare-at-the-screen comparisons to tell it apart from the high end pro primes. And Sigma ART lenses weigh even less and perform almost as well. And they have auto focus on top of that.

    Plus, gimbals and motion control robots will take over some duties too.


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    The glass inside the primes is of similar size in stills and cine primes (in Zeiss Compact Primes and Sigmas they are in fact identical), it is the housings that are different. They are different because that's what the use calls for. Cine crews want large housings with many reference marks spread over a large rotation. They want these marks to be repeatedly accurate with no slop in the mechanics. Still users want small housings that can adjust quickly and be driven by tiny incorporated motors. These are opposite mechanical designs for different usage styles. You can't have both without it being a compromise design. One is not better than the other, just different.

    Do not tell me that "the industry is moving this way or that." Maybe a given part of the market is shifting but not the business as a whole. So there will be different produts for different uses. That's just the lenses as example, but it holds true fr most everything.
    Mitch Gross
    Cinema Product Manager
    Panasonic System Solutions Company


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    #15
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    The fact remains that many of the pros on this forum say that 12 stops dr is more than enough. 8bit is effecient and provides enough quality. And that no one can see any resolution beyond 2k.


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    #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Gross View Post
    ... Do not tell me that "the industry is moving this way or that." Maybe a given part of the market is shifting but not the business as a whole. So there will be different produts for different uses. That's just the lenses as example, but it holds true fr most everything.
    Well, if the market went from a handful of sub-5 lbs cameras - not counting Canon Cinema EOS line, which found a niche in the reality TV/documentary market until other releases superseded it - by Red to having several, then it's a trend. A trend for a particular sector or a part of the mix? Surely so. If a 1-hr TV show once had ten Alexas, now it may have six Alexas and four Alexa Minis. And their next buy may be ten Mini LF's. Why? Because small size has a practical benefit while having almost no disadvantages on a fixed platform.

    Let's go to the video tape, which sounds almost identical to Sony's explanation for the Venice 2Piece.

    Michael Jonas of ARRI with Dan Chung from 2015.


    Q: What was ARRI’s rationale when creating this camera?

    A: One of our customers’ primary requests was for a compact and lightweight camera that would complement the ALEXA camera system. These requests were mainly driven by workflow or grading issues when having to integrate footage from 3rd party cameras with the material shot on ALEXA, but also by the desire to have an equally easy-to-use and reliable camera as the ALEXA. In addition, operators of handheld gimbals and multicopters suggested to us that the majority of their customers would be interested in using an ALEXA on such rigs, which wasn’t really practical with our main unit cameras.

    Q: Who do you see as the potential users?

    A: We expect the camera to be used by everybody who relies on ALEXA as a main camera but struggles with the form factor and weight for certain applications. Crews working on ALEXA-based productions will use the ALEXA Mini in tight environments, on cranes or special rigs, or as a handheld camera. Other users will include individuals working with gimbals and multicopters, or underwater, who want to take their craft to the next level and open up new opportunities on higher-end productions.
    https://www.newsshooter.com/2015/02/...michael-jonas/


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    #17
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Cameras may end up like cellphones... a race to the smallest before returning to a more sensible size and less ergonomic design.


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    Quote Originally Posted by James0b57 View Post
    Cameras may end up like cellphones... a race to the smallest before returning to a more sensible size and less ergonomic design.
    In the 1984, Motorola DynaTac, aka the Brick, was the shiznit. It also cost $3,500. In 1993, it was advertized for $39 with activation. The Flip Phone was $2,500 in 1989 and around $150 (once again, with activation) in 1994. Then, when StarTac appeared around 1996, people were wondering if it was a worthwhile upgrade. It was cute and small but not that much smaller than the Flip with a tiny battery.

    And since then, Motorola went from being the king of the industry to being an also-ran.

    As to cameras, I can't see a Sony RX100 line ever becoming "pro" despite being able to deliver a reasonably good looking 4K image. But I can see the removable control panels, return to the belt-mounted batteries, two piece pro cams a la 1970's VHS models, etc.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    Well, if the market went from a handful of sub-5 lbs cameras - not counting Canon Cinema EOS line, which found a niche in the reality TV/documentary market until other releases superseded it - by Red to having several, then it's a trend. A trend for a particular sector or a part of the mix? Surely so. If a 1-hr TV show once had ten Alexas, now it may have six Alexas and four Alexa Minis. And their next buy may be ten Mini LF's. Why? Because small size has a practical benefit while having almost no disadvantages on a fixed platform.

    Let's go to the video tape, which sounds almost identical to Sony's explanation for the Venice 2Piece.

    Michael Jonas of ARRI with Dan Chung from 2015.



    https://www.newsshooter.com/2015/02/...michael-jonas/
    A narrow slice of a subdivided industry. I see what actually gets sold and in what volume. Just because there aren't forums devoted to stuff like PTZ cameras and studio-style production equipment doesn't mean that stuff isn't big. Just because most people here don't get all excited about a camcorder with built-in zoom doesn't mean that such products are outselling other sectors of the market, because they are. A single multicam reality show can be interesting and I enjoy posting about how Deadliest Catch switched to 7 VariCams and 20 EVA1s last season (up for an EMMY for it too! ;-D), but those 27 cameras were a nice sale but not a grand overall trend in the vast industry in which we all play. There are more thing in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    Mitch Gross
    Cinema Product Manager
    Panasonic System Solutions Company


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    #20
    Senior Member jamedia.uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Gross View Post
    Funny joke.
    Don't laugh at your customers.
    Companies have done that inthe past see In_Search_of_Stupidity Companies, and some big ones at that, have gone from being #1 to simply disappearing. Red might be an example of this happening in front of us.
    Panasonic is not too big to be immune to this.
    Which is not good for me as I use Panasonic cameras, at the moment.


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