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    #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by aram View Post
    I have just checked and the track peaks at about -9dbs and is generally at about -12dbs when I am talking. I remember reading somewhere that for dialogue peaks at -6dbs were a pretty good level, so I did not feel like the recording was that quiet. I also recorded using 24 bits of resolution, which my understanding is that it allows pulling up quite a bit without too much trouble.
    With lower cost consumer grade recorders ( tascam are consumer grade, but you can get good results with them ) the base noise-floor of the recorder is usually in the -50 to -75 dB RMS range, where professional gear usually has a noise-floor of -100 dB RMS or better. When you set a recording level of -12 you are using that top 12 dB to act as your digital "headroom" and anything below this -12 dB is the dynamic range of your recording. If you have to boost your recording in post because the mic was badly placed or the speaker is very quiet, then you are going to lose even more of your recording's dynamic range. When you've run out of dynamic range, all that is left is noise.

    There's a simple test you can do with your recorder and lav, and a 3.5mm audio extension. ( assuming your lav has a 3.5mm plug on the end )

    1- Place your lav in the spot you want it ( i.e. middle of sternum ), plug it into your recorder and then adjust your recorder's level until your normal speaking voice is peaking at -12 dB.

    2- Unplug your lav mic and plug in the 3.5mm audio extension ( the extension should be less than 10 feet long, or it may cause it's own audio problems )

    3- Start recording at the SAME level you had set for your lav mic. ( you are recording "silence", but you will soon find out how silent this is ) Record for 20 seconds.

    4- Transfer your "silence" audio recording to your computer and using your audio editor's level meter ( I use the Sound Forge RMS level meter ) see what the audio level is for your "silence" recording. With a good recorder you should be seeing a noise-floor of -70 dB or better. ( pro gear is often around -100 dB RMS )

    This will give you a clear idea of the noise-floor of your recorder when set to the recording level you would use with your lav mic. You can't make a noise-free recording if your recorder is already pretty noisy.

    My old Canon 60D camera had a noise-floor of -52 dB when tested this way, and it sounded like there was a sand-storm in the background.

    Where my Panasonic GH5 shows a noise-floor of -73 dB RMS and is very quiet when set up correctly.

    I own five Tascam recorders, and all of them show a noise floor between -70 dB to -75 dB RMS.

    Consumer recorders have pretty noisy pre-amps, so you want to match them with "hot" mics that put out a strong signal, so you end up using as little gain as possible.


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    #22
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    Used Voxengo SPAN to measure the noise floor of my DR-10 at the three possible levels of amplification:

    High: -80dBs RMS
    Mid: -85dBs RMS
    Low: -88.1dBs RMS

    Now, because I am paranoid I also used JS: Audio Statistics that comes with reaper and got pretty much the same results (0.3 dB louder was the biggest difference).

    So the next question is: are OST 801 or 802 "hotter" than the rode?

    I found these details about the Rode

    Sensitivity -33.5dB re 1 Volt/Pascal (21.00mV @ 94 dB SPL) +/- 2 dB @ 1kHz
    Equivalent Noise Level (A-weighted) 25dBA

    Could not find anything similar for the OST.


    Also, I guess, mistrust stats provider by the maker?


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    #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDingo View Post
    Consumer recorders have pretty noisy pre-amps, so you want to match them with "hot" mics that put out a strong signal, so you end up using as little gain as possible.
    Does any company make preamps for lavs?


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    #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heezzi View Post
    Does any company make preamps for lavs?
    There are compact custom preamp boxes produced for "tapers" ( https://taperssection.com ), but I have no experience with these devices.

    Church Audio CA 9200 Preamp

    CA-9200-preamp.jpg

    Otherwise a good pre-amp works for almost any compatible mic.


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    #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heezzi View Post
    Does any company make preamps for lavs?
    Sound Devices does. Or did. A used MixPre-D is an awesome pair of microphone preamps, with excellent metering and first class limiters. Hard to beat if you really just want to record directly to camera -- that's what the MixPre-D is made for it seems.

    Using a MixPre-D directly with lavs requires an XLR (phantom power) to whatever plug your lavs uses (and plug-in power) converter. Most of the lav mic suppliers have such devices. For example, Oscar Soundtech has a nifty little one called "power supply-XLR" which works great powering their lavs.


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    #26
    Senior Member puredrifting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDingo View Post
    The breastbone is the sternum. The clavicles ( one on each side ) is the top most bone of your shoulders. I always aim for the sternum when I can.
    I stand corrected. Doh!
    It's a business first and a creative outlet second.
    G.A.S. destroys lives. Stop buying gear that doesn't make you money.


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    #27
    Senior Member puredrifting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aram View Post
    -No more on the collar, if possible always sternum with the overcovers (I actually bought 12 after seeing you recommend them in some other thread. They should give you commission)
    Right? I wish they would pay me a commission! It's rare that I so wholeheartedly embrace a piece of gear/solution but I am appreciative that the solution has really eliminated something I have wrestled with for decades, lav noise, at various times and using lots of different "traditional" methods, many of which work well but are such a time consuming PITA to implement. The best solution always is to just hire a pro sound mixer and let them worry about this stuff but on my own micro/no budgeted shoots for my projects, I have to do this stuff myself and I have so many other things to worry about and deal with than solving lav noise problems, that not having to solve lav noise problems is thrilling.
    It's a business first and a creative outlet second.
    G.A.S. destroys lives. Stop buying gear that doesn't make you money.


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    #28
    Senior Member paulears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDingo View Post
    Most TVs, computers, and boardroom sound systems don't have easy accessible treble controls during playback. Users pretty much never adjust these controls, they will just think your audio sounds bad.
    I meant turned up the treble in the studio.


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    #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDingo View Post
    The breastbone is the sternum. The clavicles ( one on each side ) is the top most bone of your shoulders. I always aim for the sternum when I can.
    The Clavicle is also known as your collar bone, in the US anyway.
    Cheers
    SK


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    #30
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    So late to the discussion, a week vacation with no internet... Ahh what peace!.

    Anyway, a general vocal correcting in post technique is to sweep the spectrum with a really tight (high Q) band pass at max gain. When you find a freq. that peaks, that is a place you will want to notch down. Even in the "old days" film mixers would use a Universal Audio "Little Dipper" (565 filter set) to do the same thing. "Boxy" is often resonating frequencies in the mid range. Once you knock those back in line then you can boost what you need with out the boxiness following.
    Cheers
    SK


    Scott Koue
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    ďIt ainít ignorance that causes all the troubles in this world, itís the things that people know that ainít soĒ

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    creator of modern radio


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