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    #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulears View Post
    Unless I'm being thick - in the good old days, we'd have fixed this simply by turning up the treble - not faffing around with parametric or graphics - it's a bit dull, so turn the treble up - that would be fine for me!
    Most TVs, computers, and boardroom sound systems don't have easy accessible treble controls during playback. Users pretty much never adjust these controls, they will just think your audio sounds bad.


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    Quote Originally Posted by cpreston View Post
    Also, a mic at the neck rarely sounds natural. This is especially true if the mic is under the chin and pressed against the larynx. It sounds a bit like this is a placement issue.
    This is a honest surprise to me. One of the things I have heard about really often is placing the mic in the knot of a tie, which is pretty much the same place where it was.

    Honest question: would the middle of the chest be better?

    I can imagine the chin won't be blocking as much sound, but also, I have heard about that causing "boominess" issues because of chest "reverberations" (in case it is not obvious, I am not a native speaker, so beware of my double quotes, god knows if I am getting what I mean right)


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    #13
    Senior Member Rick R's Avatar
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    The OST 801's presence boost is good for hiding under clothing and such. Out in the open it can be a bit harsh, and I've experienced annoying artifacts with sibilant voices through a Sennheiser 100 series (companders). Otherwise both are good mics for the low price. The OST TL 40 is another good affordable mic (end fire, round, 4x7 mm) and has a flatter response than the 801/2.


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    #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick R View Post
    The OST TL 40 is another good affordable mic (end fire, round, 4x7 mm) and has a flatter response than the 801/2.
    I bought two of these lavs, but they sounded very noisy with my Sennheiser G3 UHF packs. OST 801 / 802 lavs did not have this problem.


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    #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by aram View Post
    This is a honest surprise to me. One of the things I have heard about really often is placing the mic in the knot of a tie, which is pretty much the same place where it was.

    Honest question: would the middle of the chest be better?
    For interviews, if I don't want the lav seen I clip it in-between the buttons of the interviewee's shirt, with the top layer of the shirt fabric covering the lav. As long as the shirt material is not too transparent, you won't see the mic hiding underneath. ( I aim for sternum height on their chest ) If they are wearing a jacket I hide it just under the front of their jacket, which sometimes puts it off to the side, which still sounds pretty good. If the person is a squirmer I put small rolls of tape on either side of the lav to stop fabric from rubbing on the lav.


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    #16
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    Switch Lavs. Roll off at 80hz.


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    #17
    Senior Member puredrifting's Avatar
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    I'll second the OST 801, best lav value on the market. Sankens and a few others (DPA) actually sound better. For around $500.00. The OSTs are under $100.00 and sound 90% as good to my ears.

    Based on your sample, you possibly recorded way too low level, which kills your S/N ratio because when you have to add so much gain to normalize, you are radically amplifying the noise floor too. Don't do that or you'll continue to have bad audio, levels mean a lot with audio. The Boxiness seems to be an artifact that probably wouldn't have been as prominent if you'd recorded yourself at higher levels.

    Optimal placement for lavs, when possible, is on or near the breastbone or thereabouts (Clavicle?), center chest. Hair mics, shirt collars, tie knots, etc. are sub-optimal locations although a lot of hair mics are used for theater and they can sound okay but live sound is different than recording for picture. As far as how to mount a lav, after decades of messing around with everything you guys are talking about, I think the solution is to use the Rycote Overcovers with the OST801's lav element placed outward through the Overcover's fuzzy with the back to the sticky panel. It's rare I find a product that is so clearly superior to ALL of it's competition but the Overcovers simply are. Apply to inside of shirt or blouse and you are golden. No hiding in ties, shirt collars, vampire clips, wig tape, gaffer tape triangles, cable strain relief (at least with the OST 801s, very littel cable noise unlike my Countryman B6). The presence boost on the 801 compensates nicely for being placed under clothing, you never see any vampire clips, tie clips and most importantly, no noise, no rubbing, no accidently sticking talent or them sticking themselves with the vampire teeth. Bottom line, for me, these have made recording sound for picture about 60% easier than it ever was, because they are usper easy to pre-prep, rig and mount onto talent.

    You know how when you have talent hard wire lav'd (if you're smart and don't use wireless for interviews!) and at the end of an interview, talent leaps up and runs off before you have a chance to un-mic them? Then they get caught when the XLR cable gets taught to the lavs power supply, which may be clipped to them or just sitting on the floor. When that happens, best case scenario is a vampire clip with bent pins (if you're using one) and worst cast, the mic stays attached to the vampire clip and the actual mic element gets ripped off the cable (both have happened to me, lost a relatively expensive Tram TR50 when the head was ripped off, got it repaired, then it happened again. Learned that a Tram, once the head has been ripped off the cable can only be repaired once. Ouch.). With the Overcovers, the mic simply detaches from their short or blouse, no tweaked, expensive vampire clip, no lav with the head ripped off of it, it will just slide out from underneath their shirt or blouse (if that's where you exited their clothing when rigging them?)

    Been using nothing but the Overcovers for two years now and haven't lost a single moment due to rubbing or handling noise with lavs. Killer wind protection on your lavs too, it's like putting a softie on your lav but it's hidden under clothing. The ONLY place I will still revert to a vampire clip is if talent is going to be wet, in the rain, sweating a lot like athletes, the moisture mitigates the stickiness and the overcover can fall off the talent's shirt or blouse. So if you're a masochist and like getting frustrated with mounting lavs, like getting wildly inconsistent sound, like messing with Vampire clips, tie clips, wig tape, etc. go sick. As for me, Rycote Overcovers are revolutionary and simply are the superior way to mount lav mics for most "normal" situations. You do have to keep buying them as they are semi disposable (the stickies are
    a one shot deal, but I can generally extend the life of the fuzzies for around half a dozen interviews or scenes). I like that the fuzzies come in white, black and gray, let's them NOT show through semi-opaque white shirts, etc.

    So it's simple. You can do things the traditional, difficult way. Or you can make your life better and easier and use the Overcovers.
    Last edited by puredrifting; 08-15-2019 at 06:45 PM.
    It's a business first and a creative outlet second.
    G.A.S. destroys lives. Stop buying gear that doesn't make you money.


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    #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    Optimal placement for lavs, when possible, is on or near the breastbone or thereabouts (Clavicle?)
    The breastbone is the sternum. The clavicles ( one on each side ) is the top most bone of your shoulders. I always aim for the sternum when I can.


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    #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by aram View Post
    This is a honest surprise to me. One of the things I have heard about really often is placing the mic in the knot of a tie, which is pretty much the same place where it was.

    Honest question: would the middle of the chest be better?
    The optimum placement for a lav tends to be around the middle of the sternum for both men and women. Higher placement tends to get the chin shadow you're experiencing. Some voices/bodies can get away with this, most won't.

    [When I say "lav" I mean an omni lav, just to be clear. I don't own or have any use for a direction lav mic. Just sayin'.] You are using an omni, yes?

    That's not to say that non-optimal placements aren't done -- they are done all the time. Sigh... I'd just rather go for a better capture and less work in post when I can. And that said, the middle of the sternum might not be the optimum place for you personally. For what I'm hearing from your sample, I suggest that you do some tests starting at the middle of the sternum and pushing off-center toward one arm or the other. This might get your mic some more exposure to your nose, depending on how you are sitting/standing and turning your head. Which could be helpful or not -- which is why you need to test to find out.

    And I'll throw in my vote too for the Oscar Soundtech 802s. I've got a pair that I use for interview work (visible, not hidden). Perhaps the best bargain in audio.
    Last edited by Bruce Watson; 08-16-2019 at 09:27 AM.


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    OK, notes taken.

    -Buy an OST and see how that goes.
    -No more on the collar, if possible always sternum with the overcovers (I actually bought 12 after seeing you recommend them in some other thread. They should give you commission)
    -Increase level.

    I have just checked and the track peaks at about -9dbs and is generally at about -12dbs when I am talking. I remember reading somewhere that for dialogue peaks at -6dbs were a pretty good level, so I did not feel like the recording was that quiet. I also recorded using 24 bits of resolution, which my understanding is that it allows pulling up quite a bit without too much trouble. Here is the loudness analysis from SWS in Reaper for those who want to see those units.
    Capture.jpg

    Bearing those two facts in mind, I have two questions:

    -What is a good level if peaks at -9dbs is too quiet?


    -Should I risk increasing the gain to reach those -6dbs peaks while recording? (with the crappy limiters in the DR10, it seems very risky)


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