Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
  1. Collapse Details
    Sony HLG to Rec 709 LUTs
    #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    659
    Default
    Last week I was asked to shoot eight quick interviews back to back in UHD with minimum fuss and kit as we had to travel a bit. I was also asked to shoot them in HLG? Why? The producer wants to future proof to a degree and wanted minimal post color work. Hmm I thought. The final destination was to be 709. Today I had to do another two interviews for him. How am I going to process these I thought. I decided to create a Sony HLG 3 to Rec 709 LUT. To travel light with minimum kit I went with the Z90 with its bog stock standard HLG 3 BT2020 Picture Profile and a soft top light on the camera. All other light was office ambient floros. First time I've used HLG on an actual job. Experimented a bit with it but now I was confronted with a request for it. So far I'm pretty happy with the outcome. Surprisingly easy to drag HLG into 709 and loved the added flexibility of low ISOs and white balancing. What I learnt during my experimentation was to overexpose by exactly one stop as this dropped the whole vision waveform pretty neatly between 0 and 100 IRE. Here it is with a homemade HLG to 709 LUT. Anyone have any suggestions for an HLG to 709 workflow? Any comments good folk?

    Chris Young

    Edit: Geez! Once you upload stills to the forum they really look quite On a true 10-bit 709 monitor they look way better than on the old PC screen.

    CYV HLG-709 LUT.jpg
    Last edited by cyvideo; 08-08-2019 at 02:47 AM. Reason: picture comment


    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
    #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    9,503
    Default
    For HLG to 709 Id certainly be fiding or more likely makng a lut.

    This doenst look like it though. On my imac screen it has very few blacks.. like it is the ungraded version. Make it look good on the PC screen - not your fancy one.


    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
    #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    9,503
    Default
    To my eye a quick go in photoshop.. Levels and desaturate red channel
    CYV HLG-709 LUT.jpg

    Web page looks flatter.. like its lifted the bottom 10%


    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
    #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    659
    Default
    Thanks for feedback MM. Will have a go at it tomorrow. On a 50" Viera it looks okay with the levels running 64-940 (16-235) but on the PC screens which are generally 16-255 it looks a little flat. Think I'll add contrast. You reckon desat the reds? The Reds are spot on on the scopes and look okay on the telly. Might leave them for now just try the contrast path first. Suck it and see I guess.

    Chris Young


    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
    #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,174
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by cyvideo View Post
    I was also asked to shoot them in HLG? Why?
    Why? Because the client doesn't know what they are asking for. :-)
    HLG is not intended for post-production grading. It is intended for "live" output and/or monitoring. It is a terrible choice for post. If the client wants maximum dynamic range and future-proofing they should be recording in S-LOG2 or S-LOG3. But to be honest, S-LOG isn't the best choice either. A nice REC709 Picture Profile can run circles around S-LOG on that camera.


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
    #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    659
    Default
    DJ. Agree 100% on all your comments. I like a decent 709 for a lot of work. So maybe not going down this path again! Have to work with what I have on this job. It's coming out okay but just too much time wasting getting there. Oh well we live and learn!

    Chris Young


    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
    #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    150
    Default
    I'm actually impressed that your client has the foresight to want to "future proof" the footage (even if they don't exactly know how to do that). Fortunately, there is a very, very easy workflow that will produce much better results. Here is a quick summary:

    - Shoot in Log with wide color gamut (e.g. S-Log3.S-Gamut3.cine, V-Log/V-Gamut, etc.)

    Use Resolve to Grade/Transform using ACES:
    - To set up the transforms, go to Project Settings/Color Management/
    - Color science: ACEScc (or ACEScct)
    - ACES version: 1.1 (or highest available)
    - ACES Input Device Transform: Sony SLog3 SGamut3Cine (or whatever Log you shot it in)
    - ACES Output Device Transform: Rec.709 (or whatever you want to use to monitor with and/or export to)
    - Grade as much or as little as you like

    Then, simply:

    - Export Rec.709 deliverable
    - Export ACES master (change Output Device Transform setting: ACEScc or ACEScct)

    Basically what this does is it transforms your Log footage to the ACES colorspace (which is massive). This is where the grading actually takes place. It also outputs in real-time to the colorspace of your choosing for monitoring. So, even though you are working on Log footage that is transformed to ACES, you can monitor (and export) in Rec709... no LUTs required!

    For future-proofing, just export to ACES for an ACES master. When needed, just open the ACES master and export to your desired colorspace: Rec2020, P3, etc.


    If you can't get your head around ACES, here's a good primer:
    http://shootdatapost.com/blog/2014/5/16/aces-in-10-minutes


    ...and there's a wealth of info and resources here, too:
    https://acescentral.com/


    Just don't let this become too exotic of a notion in your head. It's ridiculously simple. And, if your client is already asking about future-proofing, it's worth learning about.


    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
    #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    150
    Default
    *** Oh, and by the way, you can also use ACES to help you with your current HLG to Rec709 issue (sorry I didn't think of this earlier). Same as above with this minor change in Input Device Transform:

    Use Resolve to Grade/Transform using ACES:
    - To set up the transforms, go to Project Settings/Color Management/
    - Color science: ACEScc (or ACEScct)
    - ACES version: 1.1 (or highest available)
    - ACES Input Device Transform: Rec.2020 HLG (1000 nits)
    - ACES Output Device Transform: Rec.709 (or whatever you want to use to monitor with and/or export to)
    - Grade as much or as little as you like

    Then, simply:

    - Export Rec.709 deliverable
    - Export ACES master (change Output Device Transform setting: ACEScc or ACEScct)
    Last edited by Seanik; 08-09-2019 at 12:50 PM.


    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
    #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    659
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Seanik View Post
    I'm actually impressed that your client has the foresight to want to "future proof" the footage (even if they don't exactly know how to do that). Fortunately, there is a very, very easy workflow that will produce much better results. Here is a quick summary:

    - Shoot in Log with wide color gamut (e.g. S-Log3.S-Gamut3.cine, V-Log/V-Gamut, etc.)

    Use Resolve to Grade/Transform using ACES:
    - To set up the transforms, go to Project Settings/Color Management/
    - Color science: ACEScc (or ACEScct)
    - ACES version: 1.1 (or highest available)
    - ACES Input Device Transform: Sony SLog3 SGamut3Cine (or whatever Log you shot it in)
    - ACES Output Device Transform: Rec.709 (or whatever you want to use to monitor with and/or export to)
    - Grade as much or as little as you like
    What you have described is my normal workflow when shooting LOG which accounts for about 20-30% of my work. Anything I do directly for my retail clients is also LOG. For outside producers, especially the broadcast ones a lot of my jobs are fast turnaround Rec 709. It's shoot and edit the files and it's on air that or the next day. No time for faffing around with grades other than a bit of LGG and WB.

    Since I first posted on this HLG stuff, the producer in question had all this put into his head by someone, I've discovered the HLG capable Sony cameras have an HLG setting with a selectable 709 color space. I tried that out. It's just like working with 709 but it seems to have much more capability for highlight handling. For 709 hand off delivery I will examine and experiment with this some more as it looks like a better option than a stock 709 scene file. Again within that HLG 2020 to Rec 709 mode you have all the other parameters that you can adjust for various picture tuning as you would do if you were creating a normal 709 scene file.

    It was all so simple back in the Beta days he says wistfully

    Chris Young


    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
    #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    150
    Default
    Oh ok, apologies if that read as patronizing in even the slightest bit... I just know of far too many photogs, and even editors (who I respect and admire), who either know nothing about or fear the idea of ACES. I totally get that exporting .xml to Resolve for another step of processing and export is a bit exotic for broadcasters (they are about 30% of my work, too!).

    I still don't know why anyone would:

    - Want to "future-proof" by recording in HLG when they could record in LOG (did everyone agree that HLG is going to be the HDR standard yet?). From LOG you can transform to any number of HDR and cinema standards (and really, HLG is kind of a half-measure as I understand it).
    - Use a LUT to get from HLG to Rec709 on a quick turn package when using a LUT to get from LOG to Rec709 is just as easy (within an editing program like Premiere, FCP, etc.).
    - Record HLG into Rec709 colorspace (which is not HDR... and kind of defeats the purpose, no?).

    It seems that you are making ways toward a solution you are comfortable with (and that's all that really matters), so please just regard the above as musings about method. More about curiosity than anything else


    Reply With Quote
     

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •