Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. Collapse Details
    Exporting as PNG sequence - difference in color (lumetri scopes)
    #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    2
    Default
    Hi,

    I've been looking for a lossless way to export clips from Premiere Pro to edit in other software - and I though I had found it with PNG sequence; comparing with the original clip way zoomed in I couldn't see any loss of detai.

    HOWEVER when importing the PNG sequence back into Premiere (to compare quality with original clip) Lumetri Scope reveals a slight difference in color/levels. (See images. I do realize it's easier to spot the difference when overlaying the two clips in Premiere)

    What is the reason for this? Is there a truly lossless way to export a clip from Premiere?
    Or what is the closest to lossless with acceptable file size?

    original.JPGpng.JPG
    Last edited by Arvid; 07-23-2019 at 03:35 AM.


    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
    #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    6,163
    Default
    Every piece of software works differently. You may find that if you import footage from one camera into P, FCP X or Resolve, each application may interpret that camera's specific format differently producing subtle differences (colors, contrast, sharpness, etc). It's the same when you export various formats. I don't know the reason for this besides assuming that it's impossible for software to produce 100% identical results across various formats (or at least not with all of them), and I would expect PNGs to differ from an H.264-based compression or ProRes, etc.


    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
    #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    167
    Default
    Apologies if I'm going all "Creative Cow" on you here, but why do you need to go lossless between programs? Is it about being a purist (which I totally get), or is there a specific reason that necessitates exports must be lossless? There are a lot of workflow adjustments that you might possibly consider as a means to your end, but without knowing more, its difficult to recommend some good paths to get there.

    Consider, for example, round-tripping your Premiere project via XML rather than exporting between programs, and exporting the final in Premiere, if that's possible. Between Adobe programs, just use Dynamic Link server, etc. ProRes 4444 or QT Animation work very well, too in preserving color/quality. Just throwing all of that out there. I've never had to resort to PNG Sequence for anything, so I'm very curious what your constraints are or greater plan is.
    Last edited by Seanik; 07-23-2019 at 03:30 PM.


    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
    #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    2
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Seanik View Post
    Apologies if I'm going all "Creative Cow" on you here, but why do you need to go lossless between programs? Is it about being a purist (which I totally get), or is there a specific reason that necessitates exports must be lossless? There are a lot of workflow adjustments that you might possibly consider as a means to your end, but without knowing more, its difficult to recommend some good paths to get there.

    Consider, for example, round-tripping your Premiere project via XML rather than exporting between programs, and exporting the final in Premiere, if that's possible. Between Adobe programs, just use Dynamic Link server, etc. ProRes 4444 or QT Animation work very well, too in preserving color/quality. Just throwing all of that out there. I've never had to resort to PNG Sequence for anything, so I'm very curious what your constraints are or greater plan is.
    Thanks for your answer.

    It doesn't have to be lossless but can't lose to much quality either. I'm looking for a convenient workflow that balances quality, file size and ease of usage.

    I heard someone recommending PNG sequence so that's where I started investigating. The file size is quite large, about 4 times the original h264 video file (a one minute export is about 14GB), so I'm curious about QT Animation and ProRes 4444 - and would love hearing about the difference between them and also i comparison to PNG sequence.

    Do they give a close to lossless export? I can't find QT Animation as an export option in Premiere though, only ProRes 4444.


    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
    #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    167
    Default
    You're right about QT Animation... I was thinking about After Effects (which will still allow you to export that). ProRes 4444 is usually my goto codec for when I have to export something in the highest quality, but usually it's to deliver graphics to another editor who will be using it for a bigger project. QT Animation has been around seemingly forever, and I believe that ProRes 4444 is a bigger, better, and possibly cleaner choice that preserves color info better. Both of these codecs allow alpha channels. Also, as I poked around Premiere a little bit, I also came across GoPro Cineform 12-bit with Alpha (which I haven't used, but I hear it is a massive container that is very good) and of course OpenEXR (which was developed for HDR). If you look around, there are more than a few interesting choices for exporting that come as stock options in Premiere.

    But again, I think the more important thing to ask here (not just me of you, but you of yourself) is what you want to do/how you want to process your video? The best option of all, would be to NOT export between programs, and in fact try your very best to stay away from exporting until the very end (which I understand is not always possible). You might consider also that if there is a simple effect that you need to use that is also available in each of the different programs you will be using (e.g. scale/position), try to hold off on using that until the program where you will be doing the final render.

    Another question is, what are these files that you want to export? Are they video from a camera, graphics, etc.? Is there a ton of motion? Is there an alpha channel or transparency that you need to preserve, or perhaps a green/blue screen that you need to key out later?

    I suppose I could probably go on and on and on here, but if you could perhaps speak a little more specifically about what you want to do, and which programs you would like to use, we can maybe have better suggestions for you. Your question has a very familiar ring to it in that it reminds me of those times when I get lost in the weeds with the technical this and that about one specific solution without looking at the entire project organically and considering the overall process. We've all been there!


    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
    #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    2,279
    Default
    Industry standards:

    DPX, TIFF sequence, PNG sequence, and maybe Open EXR. The last one depends on who you are talking to. DPX and TIFF will be large files (really folders) but should work without issue in most of the professional editors out there.


    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
    #7
    Senior Member Ann Bens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    360
    Default
    lossless with acceptable file size.
    Those do not go together.
    Cineform is visually lossless, but large files.
    Adobe Certified Expert Premiere Pro CS2/CS6/CC
    Adobe Community Professional


    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
    #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    2,279
    Default
    PNG is listed as lossless similar to LZW compression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Network_Graphics


    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
    #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    167
    Default
    I came across this today... might be helpful:

    Compare 50 Intermediate Codecs on One Page
    https://blog.frame.io/2017/02/13/50-...decs-compared/


    Reply With Quote
     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •