Thread: Netflix 4K

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    #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    The least expensive camera on the Netflix approved list is BMD UMP 4.6K (Raw, ProRes HQ), both G1 and G2. The next one is FS-7 (Raw, X-OCN), then C300 MKII (Raw, ProRes HQ). All are sub-$10,000.
    You missed the EVA1 in there. Only $6495 and you can use the 4K recording on the SD cards if it's in All-I400 10-bit 422.

    It's important to note that just because a camera is 4K or even 4K 10-bit 422 does not necessarily mean that it is automatically approved for Netflix productions. There is a specific list published by Netflix and each camera has listed parameters under which they can be used to be considered approved. This doesn't mean that other systems couldn't be used, just that these are all tested and pre-approved.

    Netflix's logic in these technical requirements is not simply the marketing of "we said we offer 4K so we have to shoot in 4K." Like no other service before it, Netflix recognizes the value of a library of content. It needs to futureproof its library as much as is reasonably prudent. In addition to the finished graded cuts, all productions have to deliver to Netflix the content in RAW or Log form in 4K or greater. This is so that content can be re-finished at a future date in HDR or who knows what.
    Last edited by Mitch Gross; 07-17-2019 at 01:34 PM.
    Mitch Gross
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    Panasonic System Solutions Company


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    #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by James0b57 View Post
    Sounds as if you are implying we donít need 4K?
    well... you did say as much in the original post
    Pudgy bearded camera guy
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    #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbob View Post
    well... you did say as much in the original post
    Ah, i thought you were refering to 4K in general. But yes, i tend to agree that a movie streaming company may not need 4K.

    But if thrre are any world nature docs in 4K, you best believe, i’ll be watching in 4K.

    I do like higher resolutions and better quality. So, i am totally happy about 8k coming.

    That said, when i am binge watching a show, i don’t care if i am watching 720p. 480p isn’t horribly bad if the compression is good.
    Last edited by James0b57; 07-17-2019 at 07:33 PM.


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    #14
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    Ah, yes. Left off EVA1. Not in malice.

    My point was that the "approved list" dips far below Alexa65. 4K is a fairly low hanging fruit these days.


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    #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    Ah, yes. Left off EVA1. Not in malice.

    My point was that the "approved list" dips far below Alexa65. 4K is a fairly low hanging fruit these days.
    Totally! The penalty for shooting a movie in 4K is almost none, and in some ways it is cheaper to shoot in 4K.


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    #16
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    The pricing gaps between "good", "really good" and "excellent" is shrinking and shrinking. All the cameras on the Netflix list - did I happen to mention that EVA1 was also on it? - provide TV/feature quality images. It'd be interesting to see on their next update if Z6 and S1/S1H make it, at least, with the external recorders. ProRes 4:2:2 HQ is an accepted standard and Z6 is working on the ProRes Raw with Atomos.

    PS. ARRI is still getting premium prices and rates but Venice is making major inroads. The real battle, IMO, will be between the Mini LF, the next generation Canon C300/400/500, S1H (likely) and whatever small unit (FS-5III?) Sony comes out with. The mainstream production is moving toward the faster speed of acquisition mode with the hand held/stabilizer/vest combinations and the electronics are becoming quite adept of fulfilling that task.


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    #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    The pricing gaps between "good", "really good" and "excellent" is shrinking and shrinking. All the cameras on the Netflix list - did I happen to mention that EVA1 was also on it? - provide TV/feature quality images. It'd be interesting to see on their next update if Z6 and S1/S1H make it, at least, with the external recorders. ProRes 4:2:2 HQ is an accepted standard and Z6 is working on the ProRes Raw with Atomos.

    PS. ARRI is still getting premium prices and rates but Venice is making major inroads. The real battle, IMO, will be between the Mini LF, the next generation Canon C300/400/500, S1H (likely) and whatever small unit (FS-5III?) Sony comes out with. The mainstream production is moving toward the faster speed of acquisition mode with the hand held/stabilizer/vest combinations and the electronics are becoming quite adept of fulfilling that task.
    I agree that difference between the low end and the high end aren't nearly as differentiated as they were in the past. The BMPCC 4K in particular offers an amazing amount of value and even the relatively ancient FS700 has been given a new life via the Atomos' Inferno and ProRes RAW.

    However for budgeted narrative work I think most professionals working on budgeted narrative productions would choose to shoot with an Alexa, Venice or Varicam 35 instead of a mid-range or low end camera. Most of us will shoot with the camera we own but when a producer has a rental budget the savings of shooting with a lessor camera are difficult to balance against the risk to the production. Of course cameras like the BMPCC 4K will find their way into budgeted productions as crash cams or as B or C cameras when their size otherwise mandates their selection.

    If you're saying that Sony's replacement for the FS5II will be considered on the same productions as the Alexa Mini LF, I disagree. If anything I think Sony might be a bit nervous that the Mini LF will steal some of Venice's market share. Of course Sony could prove me wrong and release a FS5 MIII with a Venice sensor and 16 bit linear RAW but I doubt that will happen.

    I swore off hybrids and DSRs years ago but Panasonic and Nikon have gotten my attention with their latest offerings. I'm especially excited about the possibility of shooting ProRes RAW on Z6 and I hope Panasonic offers support for RAW recording on the S1H. The S1H's internal recording promises to be fantastic but higher bit rate 6K ProRes RAW would elevate the camera further. These are great times for anyone looking for a new camera!


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    Technically speaking, Sony can stick its A7III/Z6/S1/H sensor (yes, it's the same one, with 24 MPX) into a FS-5 body with IBIS and AF, X-OCN S-log to the XQD/CFexpress cards and, with the G-Master lenses, the image quality won't be much different to anyone outside the pixel peepers (and I don't mean it as a slight to the pixel peepers but most folks watch TV off our couches with a beer in hand).

    Here's S1 with a V-log test. Is this not good enough for TV?



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    #19
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    It's nice, but it's not the first mirrorless camera that's looked like this. (And in some shots the footage looks barely graded besides a rudimentary conversion.)


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    Quote Originally Posted by NorBro View Post
    It's nice, but it's not the first mirrorless camera that's looked like this. (And in some shots the footage looks barely graded besides a rudimentary conversion.)
    To quote Osgood Fielding III, "Nobody's perfect".

    But, while there have been indeed other "consumer level" 4K cameras that made great looking footage (GH-5S, XT-3) without getting on the Netflix approved list, S1 is a full frame 6K-to-4K model with a full V-Log. And S1H will have actual 6K.


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