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    #21
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPNola View Post
    So we've come up with two reasons why these modern-vintage primes have a market:

    * Little of the vintage glass covers FF.

    * vintage glass isn't as durable mechanically and less can stand up to focus / iris motors.


    And maybe a couple of other reasons is that when you purchase a set of vintage primes you get no warranty. And it is impossible, or near impossible, to buy a set of vintage primes that are new and without any damage or defects from use. Unwanted defects, that is.
    *and thirdly, people like to smooth out the digital look, and few manufacturers till now made new lenses without excellent sharpness and/or contrast. Few lenses road the line between good and bad like high end vintage.

    *and fourthly, film is a language, and sometimes lenses define a look or way of communicating that the viewer subconciously identifies with.
    Last edited by James0b57; 07-17-2019 at 07:43 PM.


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    #22
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    A corollary to that is how some focus motors actually destroyed the focus rings of some stills lenses when the 5DM2 first took off. Hefty motors on lightweight lenses with thin metal or even plastic innards was not a good look. The cheaper the lens the greater the damage and the less it was worth it to try to repair them. Just toss the things.
    Mitch Gross
    Cinema Product Manager
    Panasonic System Solutions Company


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    #23
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    Yes Mitch, that was indeed the case--I was glad for the adjustable torque settings on the Preston FIZ back then. And also glad to land on Zeiss ZE's and the old Tokina zooms that had hard stops. I did have a funny time doing a music video in NYC once where I spent 15 minutes trying to convince an AC that using ZE's with the lens mapping function of the FIZ effectively turned them into CP2's--he kept saying "yes except with a short distance throw on the barrel". Lots of "let me trying explaining it this way" later, light dawned.

    HEY we digress once again.
    Charles Papert
    charlespapert.com


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    #24
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPNola View Post
    Really? While I also find the added cost a bit ridiculous, what is dishonest about charging more for an additional feature? I don't see how that is in any manner akin to misleading customers.
    That may not have been the best parallel to draw. I wasn't trying to say Sigma is doing anything dishonest. I was just trying to say it seems like a very un-proportionate amount of money vs. what you are getting(glow-in-the-dark paint), just like what a lot of people are saying about the "mark-up" on the RED mini-mags(coupled with the accusations of lying about the quality of components on top of it).


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    #25
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    That may not have been the best parallel to draw. I wasn't trying to say Sigma is doing anything dishonest. I was just trying to say it seems like a very un-proportionate amount of money vs. what you are getting(glow-in-the-dark paint), just like what a lot of people are saying about the "mark-up" on the RED mini-mags(coupled with the accusations of lying about the quality of components on top of it).
    No, you’re good. We understood what you meant. Not sure why jp is all about dropping a grand on extra glow in the dark paint. Especially with all the way the forum has been up about the Apple stand amd mini mags. At least you get a whole stand from apple. ;)


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    #26
    Senior Member JPNola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James0b57 View Post
    No, you’re good. We understood what you meant. Not sure why jp is all about dropping a grand on extra glow in the dark paint. Especially with all the way the forum has been up about the Apple stand amd mini mags. At least you get a whole stand from apple. ;)

    I mentioned that it is an option, dh.
    Big sources matter.


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    #27
    Senior Member Grug's Avatar
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    Luminous markings are a pretty big deal (for me at least) with the crazy low light levels we're so frequently shooting in these days, they make a BIG difference. And not all jobs can afford to have a FIZ system on-hand.

    I'm pondering moving back to primes from zooms at the moment, and the Sigmas are high on my list, so I'll have to weigh these things up.

    I am going to make some local enquiries as to whether a lens tech here could simply paint the standard lenses with luminous paint for me - $1000 per lens is pretty bloody steep.

    As for the "Classics", I'm really interested to see how they perform. As with most people here, I have no real desire to own a 'vintage' lens set. I prefer clean and crisp lenses that I can dirty up to taste with nets and filters. But it never hurts to have options. And if by simply swapping out the coatings Sigma can offer a "vintage" set at a nice price, that makes the look more accessible through rental companies when they do arrive.


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    #28
    Senior Member James0b57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grug View Post
    Luminous markings are a pretty big deal (for me at least) with the crazy low light levels we're so frequently shooting in these days, they make a BIG difference. And not all jobs can afford to have a FIZ system on-hand.

    I'm pondering moving back to primes from zooms at the moment, and the Sigmas are high on my list, so I'll have to weigh these things up.

    I am going to make some local enquiries as to whether a lens tech here could simply paint the standard lenses with luminous paint for me - $1000 per lens is pretty bloody steep.

    As for the "Classics", I'm really interested to see how they perform. As with most people here, I have no real desire to own a 'vintage' lens set. I prefer clean and crisp lenses that I can dirty up to taste with nets and filters. But it never hurts to have options. And if by simply swapping out the coatings Sigma can offer a "vintage" set at a nice price, that makes the look more accessible through rental companies when they do arrive.
    Have you experimented with different colors for luminous lens barrel markings?

    I know in lowlight situations and when you have to keep the markings in the side of your vision while you look at the subject, there is argument for blue, in particular for the main witness mark.


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    #29
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    As was pointed out, luminous lens markings aren't necessary when you have remote lens controls, which on my jobs is essentially all the time so I haven't had to think about this (and I'm not an AC, so even more so). But in thinking about it now--if you are using a hard follow focus, wouldn't there be ample space to mount a tiny LED gooseneck to illuminate the witness mark, for pocket change? We were using those before everything went FIZ at the end of the film era and they are only cheaper and better now.
    Charles Papert
    charlespapert.com


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    #30
    Senior Member JPNola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesPapert View Post
    As was pointed out, luminous lens markings aren't necessary when you have remote lens controls, which on my jobs is essentially all the time so I haven't had to think about this (and I'm not an AC, so even more so). But in thinking about it now--if you are using a hard follow focus, wouldn't there be ample space to mount a tiny LED gooseneck to illuminate the witness mark, for pocket change? We were using those before everything went FIZ at the end of the film era and they are only cheaper and better now.

    Most "premium" options on a vehicle are options that are not necessary but just something that is nice to have. Wood-trim. Sunroof. Instrument lights that are illuminated red instead of the white that comes with the standard package. Or fully luminous puddle lights that project the name of the vehicle model onto the ground when you open the door. ( see what I did there? )

    Some may want the "fully luminous" just because it is "cool" or because it sets their Sigmas apart. But the option isn't without any usefulness. Yes, you can mount a lens-light. But that's one more thing to mount on the camera and one more thing mounted on the camera. The option could be useful when swapping lenses in the dark as well. You can see what lens you are grabbing without having to get out a flashlight. There is also the possibility that having the option makes your set of Sigmas more desirable as a rental. If one owner has the luminous versions and the other owner has the standards versions and both are renting for the same rate the owner of the luminous set might be the one to get the rental because his set offers more for the same rate. One owner only has the "base" model but the other owner has the "luxury" model or "upgraded" model.

    Think the option silly and of little use, but no one is forcing you to buy it. When I saw how much Sigma wants for the luminous option I too found the additional cost exorbitant. But it is all relative. Even at $5K with the additional cost of the luminous option the Sigmas are still well below the price of many cinema primes. Tokina Vistas are $5k without any glow in the dark markings. Cooke mini's retail for around $7300.00, no illuminated markings, and they don't even cover FF. Beaten-up Zeiss super speeds which also do not cover FF command as much as $12,000 used.

    I don't recall seeing if the Sigma "Classics" will be offered with the fully luminous option or not. ( my attempt to get this thread back on the Sigma Classics, that. )
    Big sources matter.


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