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    #21
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    Oh yeah I've watched that before, and that's the sort of thing I've personally done to my Macs. I fixed a 2007 MBP back in the day as well. I grew up working on PCs and continue to build my own workstation PCs. Just saying:

    Quote Originally Posted by filmguy123 View Post
    Really, I think boiled down the repairability and cost of the Macbook Pro is much less about a Mac being a "disposable ticking time bomb" and really just comes down to "Apple costs more across the board." They are two different issues IMO that get conflated and the nuance there is important.

    (FWIW I am not a fan of Apple locking off repair ability in the way they are).


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    #22
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    Well, all this might have been premature...

    Latest news says Apple is cancelling it's encrypted repair blocking and working to green light independent 3rd party repair agencies, in a consumer friendly move to lower repair costs.


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    #23
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    To be clear I wasn't saying that Apples prices were low or even reasonable. That latter question is something each buyers will have to decide on their own. I was only making the point that isn't fair to compare Apples SSD with a random low TBW $99 model on NewEgg.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDingo View Post
    Okay, let's compare the Crucial and Intel M.2 1TB drives that cost $100 US...

    Crucial P1 1TB 3D NAND NVMe PCIe M.2 SSD : Read Speed = 2000 MBps Write Speed = 1700 MBps

    Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 1TB PCIe NVMe : Read Speed = 1800 MBps Write Speed = 1800 MBps

    Will these be as fast as the Apple drives ? We won't know until the full spec is released by Apple
    We don't really have to wait to find that Apples SSDs will be much faster than these low end consumer drives. The SSDs in current MacBook Pro 13" and 15.4" models are have 3.2GB/s read and 2.2GB/s write speeds. One would expect this new upgraded model to at least as fast as the current systems so much faster than the cheap drives you mentioned.

    You make a good point about the Samsung SSD. I doubt many would notice any performance difference between it and the Apple or OWC SSDs but it does look pretty sweet.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDingo View Post
    But Apple may have locked out non-Apple approved hardware with it's T2 security chip, so we might be forced to purchase all hardware upgrades through Apple whether we like it or not. I really hope that "Right to Repair" legislation makes it illegal for companies like Apple to force their customers to always go through them for repairs or upgrades. Sure you might void your Apple warranty, but at least you would have the choice to do so.
    I doubt the "Right to Repair" laws that are being discussed will do much to change this situation. The laws I've seen don't require vendors to accept their party parts and instead they require that companies sell parts and tools to anyone who wants them. Apple would likely just be forced to sell their more expensive parts to more repair shops. Many smaller shops wouldn't be able to afford all of fancy hardware that companies like Best Buy have bought to repair Apple gear. Labor isnít large part of an Apple repair cost and Apple doesnít charge a diagnostic fee so I donít think there would be a big saving going with third party repair shops.

    While I would like to see more modularity I think the T2 chip plays very well in the enterprise space where large customers are facing increasingly sophisticated security threats. In addition to seamlessly encrypting the hard drive, the T2 chip has a Secure Boot feature that prevents a hacker from loading an unsigned operating system making it much harder to compromise the loaded operating system.

    Apple has a number of large enterprise customers with intellectual property to protect who will likely welcome these and other security enhancements. Enthusiasts may grumble but many larger companies are putting security first. In my experience many of these large companies only repair system through authorized channels even if it means getting some of their employees certified by Apple.

    Of course all this extra security will likely eventually mean the death of Hackintoshes, but we probably have at least 5 or 6 years before that happens. The 2019 iMac doesn't have a T2 chip and that system will be supported for some time.


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    #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary T View Post
    Apple would likely just be forced to sell their more expensive parts to more repair shops. Many smaller shops wouldn't be able to afford all of fancy hardware that companies like Best Buy have bought to repair Apple gear.
    Louis Rossmann proves that this is not true at all. He regularly gets Macbooks that have been f*cked-up by Best Buy because they had no clue what they were doing, despite spending the big bucks on fancy repair equipment, and then he methodically undoes the damage that Best Buy did to the Macbook, and finally shows how to properly repair the laptop. Going by Louis's many videos, it really looks like most repair places have no clue how to properly repair a Macbook motherboard. ( which Louis demonstrates in almost every video he posts on his YouTube channel ) And it looks like Apple repairs by replacing the entire motherboard with a new one, instead of attempting to fix the non-functioning motherboard itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary T View Post
    Labor isnít large part of an Apple repair cost and Apple doesnít charge a diagnostic fee so I donít think there would be a big saving going with third party repair shops.
    Again, watch Louis Rossmann's YouTube videos where he regularly shows that Macbook motherboards can repaired in a short period of time ( usually well under an hour ), with a much smaller parts cost than Apple's method of just replacing the entire motherboard. Louis's Macbook repairs often cost a tiny fraction of what Apple charges for the same repair because he's actually finding the problem with the non-functioning motherboard and fixing the defective component on it. It's astounding to watch Louis quickly fix a Macbook motherboard by analysing the problem and then applying some basic logic to fix the problem.


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    #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmguy123 View Post
    Well, all this might have been premature...

    Latest news says Apple is cancelling it's encrypted repair blocking and working to green light independent 3rd party repair agencies, in a consumer friendly move to lower repair costs.
    Ha! ...That never gets old, and I keep falling for it.


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    #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    So an MBP Pro would cost, what $12k fully loaded? $15K? My friend who is a graphic artist bought a fully loaded i9 MBP with the 4TB SSD and he paid around $8k. Seems like a lot of money for a laptop but he works on location on big shows like the Voice so it makes sense for him.
    Whereís the estimated price coming from?

    Was your friend including tax and other things? I just took 12 seconds and maxed out the newest 15Ē on Appleís website: $6549.


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    #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by alohype View Post
    THIS

    I don't think people realize that once your laptop has some major motherboard mishap all your data is GONE forever. There is no recovery whatsoever.

    Current MBP is basically a disposable machine with a very short lifespan ticking to fail on you at some point.

    Just watch Louis Rossmann channel on yt, he will give you a very detailed description of all the problems inside MBP.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup/videos

    One of it is unprotected data bus connection next to the power connection on the motherboard meaning that a bit of humidity can totally fry your laptop.
    You could almost say that it's deliberately designed to fail which wouldn't surprise me a lot tbh.
    Everything will fail at some point. Everything. My current RMBP is going on, I believe seven years old and my 17Ē, while not still being used, is 10 years old and still works.


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    #28
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    That Intel 660p SSD someone mentioned is a QLC drive. Pretty much bottom of the barrel. Once that drive blows through it’s cache, it’s actually slower than a spinning hard drive.
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    #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by alohype View Post
    THIS

    I don't think people realize that once your laptop has some major motherboard mishap all your data is GONE forever. There is no recovery whatsoever.

    Current MBP is basically a disposable machine with a very short lifespan ticking to fail on you at some point.

    Just watch Louis Rossmann channel on yt, he will give you a very detailed description of all the problems inside MBP.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup/videos

    One of it is unprotected data bus connection next to the power connection on the motherboard meaning that a bit of humidity can totally fry your laptop.
    You could almost say that it's deliberately designed to fail which wouldn't surprise me a lot tbh.
    This is why Apple uses higher end flash storage. There are specs and speeds for drives but what specs rarely tell us is how well the drive holds up over time. One can buy a decent fast SSD or m2 drive but it may be QLC or just not be as reliable and have a higher failure rate. Apple uses higher end storage that is not only fast but will last many years of write operations and has a very low failure rate. It costs more but you get what you pay for. Newegg has drives like this for sale but when anybody wants to call Apple a rip-off they only seem to compare to the lower end drives.

    Apples biggest fault is they donít give users an option. Honestly most of us would prefer cheap m2 storage that can be replaced vs high end super expensive storage that may last 7 years+. I think in the long run the value would be the same but then users would feel more in control and spend their money as needed vs all up front. I personally think itís better to just do it right the first time and not worry about it again. By the time the m2 storage in a MBP fails it will likely be time for a new MBP anyway.


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    #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDingo View Post
    With Apple, repair means throw-away the non-functioning item and replace it with a new one. If this is your MBP motherboard you might have to pay 2/3 of the original cost to get it repaired.

    If you took your MBP to an independent repair shop like the one that Louis Rossmann runs, he will try to repair or replace the non-functioning circuit on the motherboard, and you might end up paying him $100 for the repair, instead of paying Apple $1,500 to fix your MBP. ( Louis has so many horror stories of people that were quoted a repair cost of $1,000+ from Apple, where Louis was able to fix the Mac laptop for less than 1/10th of the Apple price )

    But Apple plans on killing off independent Mac repairs by encrypting hardware functionality via the T2 chip, so a brand new replacement component won't work if the repair person doesn't have access to the Mac hardware authorization tools.
    This is true to a certain degree. Thatís why Apple does provide a good three year warranty which will replace your entire MBP no questions asked if it fails that badly. After three years we are SOL.

    I will say in the corporate world I have seen repair isnít typically a factor to worry about. When a machine dies even a PC tower or laptop companies tend to just pitch them and get a new one. I have worked for three corporations now and have had numerous corporate clients that never bother to have IT waste time fixing any PC or Mac. They might utilize Dell, HP or Apple support while under warranty but after that they get filed in the giant green file cabinet outside.

    The days of walking into Fryís or buying components on Newegg to repair a system are coming to a close.

    At least MBP has a solid solution for external boot drives. I use an external SSD all the time on my work MBP so I can use it as my own personal machine as well. This way when I travel for work I donít need to take two MBPs. Just plug in the external boot drive and work off my own MBP.

    I do agree it is a bummer a MBP can never replace the storage or ram which happen to be the two most likely failure points on a computer. I wish Apple would change this policy but honestly this is just the world we live in now. Phones, tablets, cars, TVs and so forth are not very repairable anymore. It took me many years to get used to this and honestly Iím too old to worry about it anymore. I buy the tool I need and when it fails I replace it. I donít bother to get my toaster, TV or anything else repaired anymore. My car is the one exception but I take that to the dealership service center and let them do their thing. Most people donít even change their own oil anymore. We have become a culture of take in somewhere for somebody else to deal with it. Not sure yet if that is a bad thing or not.

    With that said I bought a Mac Mini instead of a MBP for the very reasons many of you have brought up. I can update pretty much anything I want minus the CPU. Donít even mind doing an external boot someday if the internal flash storage dies. I upgraded my own ram and use a Vega 56 eGPU which can be replaced at any point. The Mini itself was $1,100. I bought mine refurbished for $980 and added my own 32Gb of ram and the Vega 56. Total system cost was $1,860 and I can update whatever I want. If the system dies after three years I can replace it with another $1,100 Mini and use the ram and eGPU if they still work. I can use a USBc 10gbps or TB3 40gbps external boot drive if just the storage fails so Iím not really worried about that either. It isnít portable and that does suck but I rarely do heavy editing or animation on the road so Iím ok with that. I either use my old work 2014 MBP when I need a portable system or just use my iPad Pro for normal business type stuff.


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