Thread: Canon layoffs

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    I've been through this so many times at corporations as perhaps some of you have. You know what happens in a declining market. Anyone can manage in a growing or steady market. But few in management really know how to hold the helm when everything is falling apart around them. Often, they end up getting desperate and make the stupidest decisions when they need to be really sharp and composed. Instead they panic and take drastic action, poor decisions. I remember one manager who told us all in one of our desperate meetings to figure out what to do next as we were collapsing. He was in a bad spot and thought he might lose his job. He said "If I go down, I'm taking you all with me.". That's the sort of stupidity and panic that is likely happening throughout the camera divisions.

    Let's see if stupidity and panic or real leadership carries them through this decline.


     

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    "Sony bigwigs have been claiming that the A7SIII has been delayed because, once it's released, it'll be the greatest thing since their full frame bread slicer. Or something like that."
    If someone here is a Photoshop wizard, please take this on ;)
    That would be some damn impressive "convergence".


     

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    OK, this might be useful for reference (or not).

    DXO began to rate the mobile camera modules a few years back and this is their list.

    https://www.dxomark.com/category/smartphone-reviews/

    iPhone5 - a legacy review for a 2013 release - was rated at 68. The current kings Huawei P30 and Samsung Galaxy are at 112. Even iPhone XS is at 105, a marked improvement over the five-six years.

    Heading over to the "real cameras" section - Canon 5DMKIV is the current top Canon at 91 while the 2012 5DMKIII was at 81. Nikon 850 (top rated FF) is 100, 810 is 97, 800E was 96, 800 95. Panasonic GH-5 is 77, GH-4 is 74, GH-3 was 71.

    Mind you, each section has its own grading system but it seems pretty obvious from the DXO own brand of testing that the smartphone cameras have experienced a huge jump in quality over the last half a decade or so, whereas improvements in the ILC stills have been marginal.


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    I've been through this so many times at corporations as perhaps some of you have. You know what happens in a declining market. Anyone can manage in a growing or steady market. But few in management really know how to hold the helm when everything is falling apart around them. Often, they end up getting desperate and make the stupidest decisions when they need to be really sharp and composed. Instead they panic and take drastic action, poor decisions. I remember one manager who told us all in one of our desperate meetings to figure out what to do next as we were collapsing. He was in a bad spot and thought he might lose his job. He said "If I go down, I'm taking you all with me.". That's the sort of stupidity and panic that is likely happening throughout the camera divisions.

    Let's see if stupidity and panic or real leadership carries them through this decline.
    Umm that's bad. I once had a supervisor say that to a group of us camera ops.. One thing's for sure: middle management is the first to go and I would be surprised if that isn't what's happening at Canon right now...


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    OK, this might be useful for reference (or not).

    DXO began to rate the mobile camera modules a few years back and this is their list.

    https://www.dxomark.com/category/smartphone-reviews/

    iPhone5 - a legacy review for a 2013 release - was rated at 68. The current kings Huawei P30 and Samsung Galaxy are at 112. Even iPhone XS is at 105, a marked improvement over the five-six years.

    Heading over to the "real cameras" section - Canon 5DMKIV is the current top Canon at 91 while the 2012 5DMKIII was at 81. Nikon 850 (top rated FF) is 100, 810 is 97, 800E was 96, 800 95. Panasonic GH-5 is 77, GH-4 is 74, GH-3 was 71.

    Mind you, each section has its own grading system but it seems pretty obvious from the DXO own brand of testing that the smartphone cameras have experienced a huge jump in quality over the last half a decade or so, whereas improvements in the ILC stills have been marginal.
    To me it says that camera phones had a lot more room for improvement . I also know that DXO's rating/grading/testing system has been called into question many, many times over the years and it has gotten quite contentious on some of the still forums in the past.


     

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    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorsesefan View Post
    Umm that's bad. I once had a supervisor say that to a group of us camera ops.. One thing's for sure: middle management is the first to go and I would be surprised if that isn't what's happening at Canon right now...
    Yep. There's usually lots more overlap/excess in middle management positions, where a lot of times they're not actually doing anything/contributing. Just enforcing someone else's rules or trying to come up with some of their own to make a name for themself or to try to get a bonus. On the flip side, I've seen people that were very good at their job be pulled away from it and moved into a supervisory/middle management position where they were no longer contributing and doing what they were good at doing. Relegated to essentially just making schedules for the group of people that they were pulled from. But now they have a "title", which is everything in the corporate world.


     

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    Senior Member Cary Knoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gweilo66 View Post
    "Sony bigwigs have been claiming that the A7SIII has been delayed because, once it's released, it'll be the greatest thing since their full frame bread slicer. Or something like that."
    If someone here is a Photoshop wizard, please take this on ;)
    That would be some damn impressive "convergence".
    I won't be surprised is will be another 8 bit but 'don't worry, it's HDR' product.


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    To me it says that camera phones had a lot more room for improvement ...
    The first iPhone in 2005 had a 2 MP sensor ... so, "room for improvement" is an understatement.

    However, that's the point. However underperforming visavis the ILC's historically, the smartphones have been destroying the photo-video industry on sheer sales.

    I also know that DXO's rating/grading/testing system has been called into question many, many times over the years and it has gotten quite contentious on some of the still forums in the past.
    Ya, on Canon forums ... for not bowing to the mighty Canon, the Czars of the Hybrid Photo-Video Universe.

    I look at it as a garbage-in-garbage-out rating. As long as it's consistent, it's close enough. I have not even looked at their mobile articles in depth.

    Side note - Car&Driver gave Honda Civic SI 4 1/2 stars and Hyundai Elantra GT N-line 3 1/2 stars, denoting a pretty huge difference. On one of the YouTube "car" channels, the two cars were pitted against each other. The verdict there, Civic SI was sportier, Elantra GT N-line was a slightly better daily driver.


     

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    Camera sensors for phones get a lot of attention as the market as vastly larger = more profit.

    That said, IMO the end of the dedicated camera is vastly overstated for professional work, and for anyone wanting an improved user experience for taking pictures/video. The human-user interaction with a phone as a camera is poor. Form-factor / I/O controls (handles, buttons, VFs etc.) are needed and perhaps they'll become available for 'cameras with embedded modems (phones)' in the near future. The current convergence of BT/WiFi in cameras to interact with phones (Sony, Canon from my experience) has a long way to go, and thus a lot of opportunity for improvement. I'm not sure a 'complete merging' makes sense: I don't want to take calls on my camera (or use apps) and I'd prefer to use a 'real camera' (form factor, buttons, VF etc.) for photos+video.


     

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    BTW, the big deal with the smartphones isn't even how much improvement they have undergone or will undergo but at what point the smartphone performance will cross into the "Irrelevant Alley" (TM). In other words, at what performance point do the smartphone camera modules become so good, any advantage enjoyed by the ILC's become irrelevant for the vast majority of the potential customer base? I say, the new 5x and 10x optical zooms and pixel shifting sensors deliver that Irrelevant Alley grade as soon as they begin to ship (likely this summer).

    That's one of the reasons the Big Four has shifted toward the full frame and 8K but, for your casual user, that's like having a 500 hp sedan - nice if you can afford it but not a necessity.


     

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