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    #51
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    After a year with V-LOG I think it is good but not that good. It does not give you an obvious 2 stops better looking footage imho nor is the monitoring the same on my external monitor compared to a normal profile. I have learned to work with it but it is not perfect. With 10bit nice bitrate footage you have some room to push and pull in post anyway which can make up a lot of the difference between profiles and LOG footage. I can shoot the same seen in "Natural" and in V-LOG and get the same end look, but the V-LOG colors are a bit more accurate from the LUT used.

    All this to say, if you have reservations or are happy with your current footage don't sweat it. Just pick it up little by little and see if it helps your workflow.


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    #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bassman2003 View Post
    I can shoot the same seen in "Natural" and in V-LOG and get the same end look
    me too. bought v-log, learned it, haven't bothered with it since. Options are always nice, but I couldn't find a benefit.


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    #53
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    Yes Hugh, your lightbulb moment is basically it. Use a monitoring LUT, apply a LUT via adjustment layer or copy paste in Premiere. Done. Easy. Boom.

    Obviously there's always a little more to it... and others have pointed out some things that I recommend pausing your brain on, and just going and do ^^ that first.

    My 2 cents don't worry about Resolve yet IMO because it's just one more thing to learn. Lots of people like it. It's a great tool. It's nothing scary. But in no way is it needed or required, its just one more thing to learn. Pause here.

    It won't burn it in if its a monitoring LUT. They call it that because you're monitoring. Yes, some pieces of gear have options to burn in the LUT. It's an option. Don't use it

    As far as Bassman / WWJDs comments, I'd push forward on LOG. There's a reason so many pros use it, and use it only. Really, it's easy. And it's worth it. No, you won't always get an obvious 2 stop advantage. That's not how DR works. You're displaying your footage on limited DR monitors. Most TVs and monitors do about 8 stops. Most cinema cameras do about 14 stops. It's all about mapping the DR after you shoot. You can use a Lumetri color mask with feathering to pull out more range on a clip. But that's the next step. Pause here. It's super cool. Don't worry about it yet.

    Even if you do none of this, and just use the monitoring LUT and premiere LUT, you're still better off in captured range and post grading options. You can save a shot better if you need to. You have an infinite pallete post shoot to redo all colors and everything without any look baked in. Even in shots without more DR immediately noticeable, the gradations between brightness can look smoother. IMO, it's so easy to do, it would be foolish in 2019 to being baking in a look that you can't change later, when all you have to do is use a LUT in post and monitoring LUT and work basically as always, but get better iQ and a robust "insurance policy" on all your shots.

    The other thing I'll add is, I'm glad for your excitement. It also reveals you're talking about how hard it is without having done any reading or tutorials ;) I'm not criticizing that, you are just asking questions, rather I am encouraging you. Everything seems hard when no one has explained it to you. Of course you feel overwhelmed! Why don't you read something from Barry Green on working with LOG footage, read the manual on the GHx vlog, watch a youtube video on it. Be careful on Youtube, lots of misinformation.

    And then most importantly, just take a few hours to go PLAY and experiment. Be excited about it. Don't treat it as a to do list. Treat it as a free, massive camera upgrade and all you have to do is pay with a couple of fun hours of playing with stuff.

    Honestly, it's really easy. And the benefits are there even if you only use it to 10% of it's potential.


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    #54
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    You may also want to try HLG available on both the GH5 and GH5S which ( depending on who one believes ) has about 1/2 stop wider dynamic range than V-Log. Will play out directly to HDR TV's with no grading that accept HLG. There are also several LUT's for HLG too.


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    #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bassman2003 View Post
    After a year with V-LOG I think it is good but not that good. It does not give you an obvious 2 stops better looking footage imho nor is the monitoring the same on my external monitor compared to a normal profile. I have learned to work with it but it is not perfect. With 10bit nice bitrate footage you have some room to push and pull in post anyway which can make up a lot of the difference between profiles and LOG footage. I can shoot the same seen in "Natural" and in V-LOG and get the same end look, but the V-LOG colors are a bit more accurate from the LUT used.

    All this to say, if you have reservations or are happy with your current footage don't sweat it. Just pick it up little by little and see if it helps your workflow.
    Never used natural. Always stuck with Cinlike D. Would natural be the best way to go to get the cleanest most natural image possible if I decided to take that route and gently tweak in post if it needed post manipulation?
    Interesting if true. And interesting anyway.


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    #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmguy123 View Post
    Yes Hugh, your lightbulb moment is basically it. Use a monitoring LUT, apply a LUT via adjustment layer or copy paste in Premiere. Done. Easy. Boom.

    Obviously there's always a little more to it... and others have pointed out some things that I recommend pausing your brain on, and just going and do ^^ that first.

    My 2 cents don't worry about Resolve yet IMO because it's just one more thing to learn. Lots of people like it. It's a great tool. It's nothing scary. But in no way is it needed or required, its just one more thing to learn. Pause here.

    It won't burn it in if its a monitoring LUT. They call it that because you're monitoring. Yes, some pieces of gear have options to burn in the LUT. It's an option. Don't use it

    As far as Bassman / WWJDs comments, I'd push forward on LOG. There's a reason so many pros use it, and use it only. Really, it's easy. And it's worth it. No, you won't always get an obvious 2 stop advantage. That's not how DR works. You're displaying your footage on limited DR monitors. Most TVs and monitors do about 8 stops. Most cinema cameras do about 14 stops. It's all about mapping the DR after you shoot. You can use a Lumetri color mask with feathering to pull out more range on a clip. But that's the next step. Pause here. It's super cool. Don't worry about it yet.

    Even if you do none of this, and just use the monitoring LUT and premiere LUT, you're still better off in captured range and post grading options. You can save a shot better if you need to. You have an infinite pallete post shoot to redo all colors and everything without any look baked in. Even in shots without more DR immediately noticeable, the gradations between brightness can look smoother. IMO, it's so easy to do, it would be foolish in 2019 to being baking in a look that you can't change later, when all you have to do is use a LUT in post and monitoring LUT and work basically as always, but get better iQ and a robust "insurance policy" on all your shots.

    The other thing I'll add is, I'm glad for your excitement. It also reveals you're talking about how hard it is without having done any reading or tutorials ;) I'm not criticizing that, you are just asking questions, rather I am encouraging you. Everything seems hard when no one has explained it to you. Of course you feel overwhelmed! Why don't you read something from Barry Green on working with LOG footage, read the manual on the GHx vlog, watch a youtube video on it. Be careful on Youtube, lots of misinformation.

    And then most importantly, just take a few hours to go PLAY and experiment. Be excited about it. Don't treat it as a to do list. Treat it as a free, massive camera upgrade and all you have to do is pay with a couple of fun hours of playing with stuff.

    Honestly, it's really easy. And the benefits are there even if you only use it to 10% of it's potential.
    Thanks to all for your encouragement and pushing me in this direction. I have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying all of this out on a wide dynamic range scene in my home. I guess I never trusted my own eye when it came to grading but, then again, it's all a personal preference, right? Who knows, I may stumble on what Conrad Hall called a "happy accident!" I will monkey around with V-Log, natural and Cinelike D and form my own conclusion. I will be happy to share my findings with all of you professional comrades out there! I'll be the first to embrace the hell out of it if I actually get it right. I'm that guy who gets it then runs outside in his underwear, screaming at the top of his lungs, trying to to tell everybody how great I am figuring out V-LOG!

    One other thing: if I don't have a pre-installed LUT in Premiere, what would be the best color correction menu item to manually tweak the image? Fast color corrector?
    Last edited by Hugh DiMauro; 03-22-2019 at 03:57 PM.
    Interesting if true. And interesting anyway.


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    #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
    You may also want to try HLG available on both the GH5 and GH5S which ( depending on who one believes ) has about 1/2 stop wider dynamic range than V-Log. Will play out directly to HDR TV's with no grading that accept HLG. There are also several LUT's for HLG too.
    I read up on this but I was under the impression you need an HDR TV to see the image properly. I will experiment with that too. I believe HLG (HDR) shows a "normal" image in the viewfinder?
    Interesting if true. And interesting anyway.


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    #58
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    HLG is also a LOG curve generated by BBC and NHK so that they can transmit files that SDR and HDR can see acceptably. Can think of it as an extended Rec709.


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    #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh DiMauro View Post
    if I don't have a pre-installed LUT in Premiere, what would be the best color correction menu item to manually tweak the image? Fast color corrector?
    You will fail - just get the LUT. Most here, self included, will recommend Leeming LUT. Worth it. Cheap. Good. Walks you through everything too in the PDF.

    Alternatively, you can get the official Panasonic LUTs. Why not start there? But I will say, I've had a better experience, better image, better results, and more guidance with the Leeming LUT. It's really not that much.


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    #60
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    There was mention previously of needing a calibrated monitor. Not really.

    Your audience is unlikely to have a calibrated monitor.

    Best is to look at your work on 2 or 3 consumer devices and get a 'feel' for your grading - learning to make an image look OK on those multiple devices.

    I have an Imac with a crappy dell monitor attached - I look the image on both and grade for a midpoint.


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