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    #11
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    Just to repeat what Rick wrote (in slightly stronger language)...

    Ask the studio engineer to choose a recording format best for video, such as:
    24 bit, 48KHz
    16 bit, 48KHz

    You *really* want to avoid starting out with a recording at 44.1KHz!

    Once you start cameras rolling, do not stop until the end of the take. This cuts way down on the number of syncs you have to perform. Many shooters will think they should just roll when they have the shot composed the way they want it, but shooting music with multiple cameras is a little different.

    Some of the earliest budget sync methods involved all cameras shooting a clock with a sweep second hand, and keeping them rolling through to the end, or, if they had to reload, shoot the clock at the beginning of every reel/tape.

    Some DSLRs are capable of free-run timecode. For this, you can use Time-of-Day timecode. With a little practice you can get each devices internal timecode generator running at better than a half-second sync resolution. Which will get you close in post, close enough that fine sync can be done by hand.

    And, as written above, all cameras should record sound. You could have the studio engineer send a bloop (a short tone) to all monitors and all recorders once you have all the cams rolling. That will help a LOT, even if the rest of the camera sound recording is overdriven to distortion.

    You’ll need to explore whatever multicamera editing methods your NLE provides. At worst, one camera per track and switch using a razor tool. Brute force, but it’s solid, it works. Most NLEs provide something more elegant...

    There are methods. Not as solid as Tentacle sync boxes everywhere, but, with some thought, practice, and trial and error you can make it work! Just expect that your first 25 hand post-syncs will be hard, the next 25 you’ll say “that wasn’t so bad”, and after a hundred you’ll wonder what all the fuss was about!


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    #12
    Senior Member paulears's Avatar
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    Over the past 8 weeks I've been recording multiple cameras in theatre shows - and two of them are locked off and difficult to access, so they start to run at maybe 20 mins to show time, and then get collected 3 hours later. Audio from a Zoom connected to the house PA mixer. Manually synced to a suitable even at the start (the drummers first cymbal crash, visible in every camera), none of the cameras needed re-syncing for the duration of the events In fact, the only niggle was the extra syncing for the cameras that stopped during the interval.

    I firmly believe that speed stability in terms of fps and the digital frame rate are now so stable that the old drift issues are gone. The real pain were the few Chinese Go-pro-esque cameras that we dotted around that do NOT have UK frame rates, i.e. only 30/60fps rates. Converting to 25/50 seems to always cause some drift, end- to end. I wonder if it's the cameras drifting, or something introduced in the conversion process?


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    #13
    Sound Ninja Noiz2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SethB View Post
    Some DSLRs are capable of free-run timecode. For this, you can use Time-of-Day timecode. With a little practice you can get each devices internal timecode generator running at better than a half-second sync resolution. Which will get you close in post, close enough that fine sync can be done by hand.
    A minor correction for clarities sake. Most (all) DSLR's time stamp files and that can be used as described above. But that is not "time code", at least not what people refer to when they talk about Time Code, it is just a time stamp in hours minutes and seconds.

    The key difference being that TC is frame rate referenced and has user bits and a time stamp has neither. For the use described that doesn't really matter but in other uses the difference is important.
    Cheers
    SK


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    #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noiz2 View Post
    A minor correction for clarities sake. Most (all) DSLR's time stamp files and that can be used as described above. But that is not "time code", at least not what people refer to when they talk about Time Code, it is just a time stamp in hours minutes and seconds.
    Except that cameras like the GH4/GH5/GH5S do use time code. Technically, those are mirrorless rather than DSLR, but “DSLR” has almost become a blanket term like “Q-Tip” or “Kleenex”.

    The GH4 had that big, clumsy adapter that added XLR audio inputs and a BNC connection for TC sync.

    The GH5S has a BNC cable available for TC sync, and it attaches straight to the camera body.
    Nobody notices audio... until it's not there.

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    #15
    Sound Ninja Noiz2's Avatar
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    Interesting. You are right that they are not not DSLR's lacking the R, and yes people do use the term incorrectly a bunch.
    Even Panasonic describes them as hybrid still/ film cameras so the TC functions make sense and I didn't know they had them. Though it's a bit crippled in that according to tenicle only the last one can be jammed, though it sounds like the adapter, you mention must allow the G4 to jam?
    There is also apparently an ap that will let you sync the TC generator on multiple GH4-5's and that would certainly work for the OP.

    But do any other DSL (R)'s have TC functions? Blackmagic does but they don't even pretend to be a still camera.
    ML has some TC functions but they seem to be problematic.

    My point was a bit like calling a mirrorless camera a DSLR. In most cases it doesn't really matter BUT in some cases it adds a lot of confusion. So I personally feel it's important to use the correct terms for things whenever possible.

    I had an argument with a video producer we were doing post for. He had sent us 3/4" a cassette (yep not recently) that didn't have any TC on it only the tape counter. He insisted that thetape had TC. We didn't care because we were digitizing everything then and we didn't need to sync to the tape. I was giving him a heads up that the mix stage would not be able to use a tape that had no TC on it. He had been doing this for years bla, bla, bla... So we sent our files off to the stage and the guy showed up with a tape and... it had no TC so he got to pay for the stage while he went back to the shop to make a new tape that did have TC on it.

    The tape did have a TC format counter but it was not TC. So while there are apparently a few cameras that do have actual TC most DSLR's and most mirrorless cameras don't. And what the poster was talking about was clearly for cameras that didn't. And calling that TC can get you into trouble for uses other than what he was suggesting.

    As a positional reference, unless you can jam sync everyone, it doesn't really matter if the camera is time stamping or stamping TC. Either way with out being able to jam you are only getting info of about where the two files should sync.

    But I am glad to hear about the GH5S, because I have a shooter I work with sometimes and he has one I think and I don't think he thought about it but we could jam and make his post life a bit easier.
    Cheers
    SK


    Scott Koue
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    #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulears View Post
    Over the past 8 weeks I've been recording multiple cameras in theatre shows...
    I firmly believe that speed stability in terms of fps and the digital frame rate are now so stable that the old drift issues are gone...
    Having done a lot of hand-syncing over the years, I completely agree with this, even for hour-long takes. Of course there’s someone with some contrary experiences, perhaps with different cams or recorders than we’ve happened to be using, but digital technology has made a huge difference. (Man I feel like a dinosaur when I say/write stuff like that!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noiz2 View Post
    A minor correction for clarities sake. Most (all) DSLR's time stamp files and that can be used as described above. But that is not "time code", at least not what people refer to when they talk about Time Code, it is just a time stamp in hours minutes and seconds.

    The key difference being that TC is frame rate referenced and has user bits and a time stamp has neither. For the use described that doesn't really matter but in other uses the difference is important.
    Quite right, thanks for the clarification. We’re talking a single timestamp in the file header...


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