Thread: SMM moco

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    #11
    Senior Member Jim Arthurs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReelFilmGeek View Post
    I've heard of mantis but also heard of people using dragon frame lately. I really need to dig into the differences but it's hard to find out details on them both it seems in a comparison.
    Hopefully Doug Kropla will chime in here, as he's built a score of fun, resourceful and innovative DIY moco rigs, and has a Mantis system as well as Dragonframe experience. I can tell you that Dragonframe is more stop motion focused, and Mantis is first and foremost live action focused, both with a large overlap in useful scenarios. Dragonframe is move and shoot only, unless you buy their "higher end" interface box, while Mantis can do live action, go motion and stop motion moco.

    Here is a little demo of my first nodal pan/tilt/roll head from a few years ago, in which I gleefully lifted design elements from Doug's work. I'm using Dragonframe to run it, and doing a live preview "cheat" to make it look like it can slew all three axes simultaneously (well, it can, but only in one specific case which I'm exploiting)...

    http://files.datausa.com/imageshoppe...LT_HEAD_06.mp4

    That design suffered from backlash due to the geared steppers, so I next went with some wonderful Harmonic drives I found on ebay and tried something with more camera and lens versatility in aluminum...

    http://files.datausa.com/imageshoppe...CO_head_01.mp4

    I'm still improving that rig, which is a stop motion only rig, and currently exploring a much more compact pan/tilt/roll design that is designed as small as possible around specific lenses camera configs...

    As Morgan can attest, DIY moco is so much fun!

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    Senior Member Jim Arthurs's Avatar
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    So speaking of moco, the great grandfather of moco systems, the original Dystraflex from Star Wars has been refurbished and made its debut at the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences Thursday night at this event...

    http://www.wearemoviegeeks.com/2019/06/266867/

    That amazing Millennium Falcon model you see in the pictures is NOT the ILM original, but an exact replica built by a friend of mine, Sean Sides. I was lucky to be one of the first two fortunate folks to see it completed, and I recorded the evening as Sean does a walk-through of the construction process for us...

    https://youtu.be/GpzW3t2wzXM

    Since this is DVXUser, camera tech notes... I shot it with the GH5s on the Ronin-s with a Sigma 10-20mm f3.5, HLG at 2500ISO. It was one long brutal 28min take and a bunch of b-roll shot after my arm stopped shaking.
    Jim Arthurs


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Arthurs View Post
    Hopefully Doug Kropla will chime in here, as he's built a score of fun, resourceful and innovative DIY moco rigs, and has a Mantis system as well as Dragonframe experience. I can tell you that Dragonframe is more stop motion focused, and Mantis is first and foremost live action focused, both with a large overlap in useful scenarios. Dragonframe is move and shoot only, unless you buy their "higher end" interface box, while Mantis can do live action, go motion and stop motion moco.
    Aw good to know and thanks for sharing the samples. Yeah right now I'm just running arduino into a trial of dragonframe as I'm still in the early stages of testing and building stuff. Just learned about planetary gear motors today actually haha. Working on getting my hands on some 8020 Aluminum Extrusions now to be able to attach to steppers and build rigs for motion controlling elements in a shot rather than the camera itself right now, though now I want to make a multi axis pan tilt head for sure! But first I'm starting smaller and slowly moving up, been taking away what I can a lot from the Behind the scenes of Steve Giralt's work (minus the camera arms) https://www.stevegiralt.com/behind-the-scenes

    And yeah I heard there was a way to cheat out motion with dragonframe but haven't dug deep into that yet since I only have one stepper motor to work with. I have a second one on the way along with some other goodies to build a box containing my drivers, power supply, and arduino to help keep things clean rather than a bunch of wires on a board out in the open haha.
    Florida Based Photographer & Cinematographer
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    Here is my first public reel

    Webpage.. http://framedogs.com/motion-control-camera-bristol/



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    That's a cool machine that does a lot.

    Random side question if you feel like addressing: What's the story behind the pixel @1:17?

    [I had to send an a6400 (Sony) in to get a similar looking artifact removed. It was red and mine faded in and out until it one day decided to stay burned in.]


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    Very nice, cool stuff Sam. Thanks for sharing. I'd certainly hire you for such work (if you were a bit closer).


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    What's the story behind the pixel @1:17?

    I can see dust above the battery but no stuck pixel?

    learned about planetary gear motors today actually haha.


    these can have backlash, in fact must habe it by design.

    I'm starting smaller and slowly moving up,


    This is a very good idea. Mine I kind of went in too big too fast. I should have got a proper handle on motors before I started!

    --

    I was trying to shoot 200mm macro and vibration/backlash are problematic and have wasted my whole week.. trying to shoot a box content for a national brand.. a bit scary as I delivered late.

    I was in a box of hell.. too slow and the motors vibrated, too fast and the physical system vibrated causeing jello.

    The gearbox my friend (who now works at boeing!) made is great the epicyclic gear has that backlash and a non geared motor was too vibey at low speed.

    Ive got a 5:1 epicyclic on order, maybe that will offer the correct balance (when an epi motor has a higher ration 5:1 not 50:1 it will have less gears and less backlash)

    My other friend (Roll Royce aero engines) said I should have specified NO backlash. ie have a specific method in the design for exclusion. It is so much worse in macro with small turns mixed with long slides.

    Retro fitting anti backlash is not trivial.. or even clear how it should be acheived.


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    if only id known..


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    Obviously absolutely does not matter at all (for this video's purpose), but maybe it was just meant to be for me to see it as mine was red and almost exactly in the same spot.

    Pixel (CU).jpg

    Pixel.jpg


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    Yeah vibrations for camera movement are such a challenge and so much worst than shooting macro. Would love to hear when you think you finally have a solution for that. Right now I'm trying to found out the best way to attach the stepper motor shaft to some 8020 Aluminum Extrusions so I can rotate them. The big issue is finding a solid mounting solution but I have a feeling I will need to get something custom made for it. Though been on the road for a few shoots lately and haven't had as much time as I would like to play with the setup.
    Florida Based Photographer & Cinematographer
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