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    #31
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    Mitch
    The 24-105 rehoused not to trombone would probably end up with a 150mm diameter front Element.

    Fairly huge in my book.

    As you say it’s that pesky physics


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    #32
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    The crop factor is, at least on my copies of the C200 and the 18-135 STM IS, because of the slightly wider crop factor in the C200, I can actually see the inside barrel of the lens and I can see the actual twitching of the IS mechanism at work and I see it bump and swim around while on a boat. You see it more when shooting the 17:9 DCI RAW than the 16:9 UHD of FHD but it essentially makes using EF-S lenses on at least my C200 a no go. The FF 24-105 doesn't suffer from this because it has a larger image circle. I see this extreme vignetting on all of my EF-S lenses but it's worse on the 18-135 STM IS. I wish that Canon had given the C200 a native 1.6X crop factor. The EF-S setting in the menu zooms in a few percent on the image but even with the EF-S setting enabled, I still see black circular vignetting in the corners. Maybe this is just my copy of each? Vignetting is one thing, but seeing the actual inside barrel of the lens housing in the corners is another.
    Ok. So as I thought, you were more or less just talking about the vignetting of that particular lens since it's not designed to cover s35 and an additional crop that the camera was performing*, not "crop factor" in general.



    *I don't own a 200 or any EF-S lenses, so I didn't know this happened.


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    #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liam Hall View Post
    A 24-105mm F4 effectively becomes a 16-70 F2.8 when used with a FF to S35 SpeedBooster. The Fujinon 18-55 f2.9 really is the only affordable cine style lens close to that range. Shame it only comes in E-mount.
    Actually a proper demagnifier ratio is a .77 multiplier. No lens is ever precisely a certain millimeter focal length, but a "true" 24-105 T4 would become a theoretical 18.48-80.85 T2.8. In the end I think I'd call that an 18-80.
    Mitch Gross
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    Panasonic System Solutions Company


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    #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_moore View Post
    Mitch
    The 24-105 rehoused not to trombone would probably end up with a 150mm diameter front Element.

    Fairly huge in my book.

    As you say it’s that pesky physics
    Actually I've seen the ray trace. A 114mm front would cover, at least with the particular design I'm referring to. It might not be the one with which you're familiar.

    At one point I thought of commissioning the product a a startup company, but I don't think it would be proper given my current position. And I don't have that kind of cash lying around. But I know what could be done.
    Mitch Gross
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    #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_moore View Post
    Mitch
    The 24-105 rehoused not to trombone would probably end up with a 150mm diameter front Element.

    Fairly huge in my book.

    As you say it’s that pesky physics
    If you use one of the designs that are longer at their widest point and shrink when zooming in (like Canon & Nikon 24-70 2.8 lenses) then it does not need to be that much large of a diameter than the front element already it.

    Not quite the same reach as a 24-105 but still a very useful lens, especially given the amount of cameras with larger than s35 sensors these days. Perhaps that's one reason nobody has attempted it yet - they're waiting for the sensor size race to settle down before they decide what type of coverage they need.
    VIDEO PRODUCER ON THE NSW NORTH COAST, AUSTRALIA
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    #36
    Senior Member puredrifting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    Ok. So as I thought, you were more or less just talking about the vignetting of that particular lens since it's not designed to cover s35 and an additional crop that the camera was performing*, not "crop factor" in general.



    *I don't own a 200 or any EF-S lenses, so I didn't know this happened.
    To be clear, all three of my EF-S lenses do it, the EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS, EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS and the worst of the bunch, the EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 STM IS. It's not just this one lens although it does it more drastically then the other two.
    It's a business first and a creative outlet second.
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    #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Gross View Post
    You all vastly overestimate the size of the market for pro video or Cine lenses. These things have to be made profitably, which is why they end up costing what they do.
    I understand that - but you only need to look at the popularity of the Sigma 18-35 cine to realise how much people are dying for an affordable wide-mid range zoom. And I think most people don't even expect or demand "pro" quality in the sense of lens a designed and engineered from scratch. I'm sure there is a big market who would be thrilled to have the same photo lenses they already have rehoused, the same as what Sigma or Tokina are doing already. They just haven't done it yet with any of their standard zooms.
    VIDEO PRODUCER ON THE NSW NORTH COAST, AUSTRALIA
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    #38
    Senior Member cpreston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    To be clear, all three of my EF-S lenses do it, the EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS, EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS and the worst of the bunch, the EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 STM IS. It's not just this one lens although it does it more drastically then the other two.
    I've found that all of those lenses start to vignette at the wide angle, especially with the IS engaged. I was a huge fan of the 18-135 STM on the C100 with crop mode engaged, though. That lens has the best IS for video in any of the Canon line.

    My biggest problem with all of the Canon standard fixed aperture zooms is that aren't close to having a fixed transmission at anything other than wide open. They also have IS that doesn't work well with panning and tilting.

    The Canon CN-E Servo Zooms are probably as good as you can get for a "Standard ENG Zoom" for S35. They are light enough to handhold and they don't have any of the drawbacks of the photo lenses. For a "Cine" zoom, I think you are going to be stuck paying the "Cine" prices like with the 17-120. I would love having that lens.


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    #39
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    The Canon Cinema EOS cameras have sensors a bit larger than Super-35. Not enough to really notice optically, other than some lenses don't cover properly.
    Mitch Gross
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    Panasonic System Solutions Company


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    #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    It also is available in Fujinon X-Mount.
    As an aftermarket swap also in M4/3 from MTF and I believe Duclos.

    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...mount_for.html

    Chris Young


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