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    #11
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    you might have got me wrong or more likely I expressed it wrong. There is nothing against ACES but for a music video accurate colors are not so important. It's too clean too neutral for my taste.


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    #12
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    I see ACES as a means, not (necessarily) an end, but ok. The only prohibition it presents to me is using someone else's out-of-the-box "look" LUTs (which is fine, if that's what turns you on. There's not much distro of interesting LMTs, to be sure, so finding your own way is up to you). My feeling is that, among a slew of other things, this was not the challenge here.


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    #13
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    FYI: I never use LUTs or ACES for my EVA1 projects.
    Try the Color Space Transform ResolveFX - it's the most flexible, node-based workflow.


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    #14
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    Maybe you guys realize this (maybe not), but let me just throw this out there, nonetheless:

    In Resolve, I usually just set up the entire project in ACES:

    Project Settings/Color Management
    /Color Science = ACES [I just use ACEScc]
    /ACES Version = [I just use the latest, v1.1]
    /ACES Input Device Transform = Panasonic V35
    /ACES Output Device Transform = Rec709 [or whatever you want to monitor and output to]
    /Process Node LUTs in = ACEScc AP1 Timeline Space [or you can use AP0 Linear if you need it]

    That's it. Done.

    All of the clips on the timeline are now transformed to ACES (the colorspace that I'm working in) and output to Rec709 (the space that I'm setting levels for). There is no need to apply any transforms/LUTs in the node tree for each clip. It's a wholesale transform in one single step.


    When working on a project with a mix of clips from different sources/colorspaces/gammas (i.e. VLog, SLog3, rec709, etc.), I do the same as above except for "ACES Input Device Transform" I select "No Input Transform." This simply changes the timeline to ACES and output to Rec709 without transforming any clips.

    Next, I just go to the Media Pool, create new bins for each different source (e.g. VLog, SLog3, etc.), and add the clips to their respective bins (doing this does not effect their locations on your HD... it's strictly within Resolve).

    Now, open one of the bins, select all of the clips, right click to get the menu, select "ACES Input Transform", and apply the transform of your choice (e.g. "Panasonic V35" , "Sony SLog3 SGamut3Cine", etc.). Do this for each bin of different sources. *For clips that are already Rec709, just select "Rec709" even if you are monitoring/outputing to Rec709... it functions sort of like a bypass, but really the transform goes like Rec709 [source] -> ACES [colorspace] -> Rec709 [monitor/output]... you're still really working in ACES even though it looks unchanged.

    That's it. Done. The working space for your project is ACES and all of your transforms are already applied. No need to do the transforms in the node tree.


    To take it even further, you can even create LUTs to match up sources (e.g. white balance, color), and use this same method to apply them to all the specific clips that you need to affect in one step. If you shoot a few frames of a chip chart with each different camera in each different scene, this is amazingly easy. One less operation that you have to repeat over and over again when grading.


    This is my SOP when working with EVA1 on multicam shoots/projects (because chances are, I'm the only one with a Panasonic!).


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    #15
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    Seanik, I was not talking about technical things. Is the ACES workflow correct? Yes. Does the image look correct? Yes. Does the correct image look appealing in this case? No offense, but not for my eyes. It's neutral, it's too clean. It's a music video not an interview. Just my humble opinion.


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    #16
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    Also, there probably isn't really that much of a difference (for a strictly or majority VLog sourced project) to instead use "DaVinci YRGB Color Managed" for the Color Science, work instead in "Panasonic V-Gamut/VLog" for Timeline Color Space, and output to Rec709... V-Gamut is nearly as wide as ACES, after all. (I just have these ACES settings saved as presets, so I just go with what I know works well). I'm sure the two color sciences have their own pros/cons respectively, but I haven't really dug into that.

    I do find, however, that there is a difference in working (grading) on clips that are in a wide gamut color space before the transform to Rec709, as opposed to grading after the transform step.

    Anyway, hopefully someone may find some of this stuff useful. Thanks!


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    #17
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    Clermond - I hear you my friend. I'm not offended at all (actually, I'm very grateful for your input). I also believe that I understand what you're saying: that the "look" is too neutral for a music video. What I am saying is that is not so much a function of using ACES, but rather my own (so-called) creative decisions and to some extent the re-compression by Vimeo and YouTube.

    BTW, here's a link to an h.264 version of it before it hit the Vimeo/YT machine (it's quite a bit different). Better to download it and view it in QT or VLC.
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/126s...ew?usp=sharing

    I take your point about the neutral look. I actually experimented with a "technicolor 3 strip" technique, but found it too cartoonish and some of the colors were way off (including the skin tones). Instead, I opted to develop a color pallet for each scene and used the Color Compressor effect to "bend" the hues toward respective target hues that I sourced from some color theory charts. Interesting effect in that it actually limits the amount of colors but unifies them and sets them against their natural compliments. Alas, Vimeo/YT killed that, lol! But yes, you are correct that, on balance, I took a moderate to conservative approach on the color scenes. My goal was to produce bright and vibrant color (to contrast with the monochrome shots) without being too gaudy. The end result was that I was never in danger of that happening, lol! Again, thanks for the advice... on something like this, I could stand to push it a bit more. Honestly, I think I just fell for the colors right out of the camera, and didn't want to give them up!

    Cheers!
    Last edited by Seanik; 12-07-2018 at 12:15 PM.


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    #18
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    Great job on the music video! The creative of B&W with color technique... makes the colors pop even more. Nice job. My personal mantra of "taking something that's real, make it look not real, then make it real again" is what I think Clermond was referring to in regards to a more stylistic approach in the music video genre. Ironically, the fact that it is "clean" makes it stand out. Go figure! Anyways, that EVA1 (with your grading), is look'n mighty nice.


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