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    Canon C200 Or Red Gemini
    #1
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    Hi,

    I have some money to spend due to an insurance settlement so I have a purchase decision to make and thought people might like to give me their 2 cents.

    I can either go;
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Canon C200
    Movi Pro
    Readyrig
    Canon CN 14,24,35,50,85,135mm cine lenses
    DJI Mavic Pro 2

    Plus 7k credit to keep on my account for a rainy day.

    or;
    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Red Gemini -(using Atomos Shogun Flame HDR monitor with side handle for operation)
    Movi Pro
    Canon CN 24,50,85mm cine lenses.

    Have to pay an extra 1k.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    What do people think?

    Here is a link to a blog I have made while testing the cameras and the raw workflows - http://tomjkelly.com/red-gemini-cano...-rawtest-fcpx/

    I should have said that I already own a Sony FS7 which im super happy with for all corporate and documentary style work I do. I want this 2nd camera to be something that can help me grow as a visual filmmaker which I can use on commercials and the feature film project that I am shooting in the next 18months.

    I formed a pro list for each camera in order of importance;

    C200

    1.Price
    2.ND Filters built in
    3.More physical buttons on body
    4.Auto Focus
    5. Smaller batteries that last longer and are allowed on aeroplanes.
    6.Waveforms!!
    7.EVF & Monitor comes with it.

    Gemini

    1. Image Quality
    2. Slow Motion
    3. Bigger sensor to make more use out of my full frame glass
    4. Raw workflow build into FCPX and seems to work better.
    5. Lowlight performance
    6. Integration with Movi Pro
    7. More rental potential
    8. Smaller file sizes
    9. Can use x2 anamorphic lenses


    The reasons for the Shogun monitor is to first of all save money on Red screen and EVF 6k! As the screen can been seen in bright sunshine and i prefer using menus with buttons on side handle than on touch screen. Because I already own the Shogun it was the only way of getting close to affording the Gemini, Movi and cine lenses. I will test how that setup works before making a decision though.

    FYI my equipment list is at the bottom of this page so you can see what I already have. http://tomjkelly.com/freelance-cinematographer/



    Many Thanks

    Tom
    Last edited by tomster; 11-17-2018 at 06:22 AM.


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    #2
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    If it's down to those two and nothing else - AND you can afford either and really don't need any extra money on a rainy day - AND plan on working for other people...don't even think about it and get the GEMINI.

    The visual quality difference between the two is absolutely not worth the extra money for the RED, but unfortunately (fortunately?) the name on the camera is.

    ---

    And if RAW is what you like working with (I didn't read your article)...RED, no question. Nothing better in the world on that end (IMO).


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    #3
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorBro View Post
    If it's down to those two and nothing else - AND you can afford either and really don't need any extra money on a rainy day - AND plan on working for other people, don't even think about it and get the RED.

    The quality difference between the two is absolutely not worth the extra money for the RED, but unfortunately (fortunately?) the name on the camera is.

    ---

    And if RAW is what you're looking for, RED, no question. Nothing better in the world on that end (IMO).
    Yep. Just depends on the market segment/type of clients you're going after and what world you want to play in. My .02, you're going to "need" a lot more accessories(spend more $$$) to play in the RED world, too.


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    #4
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    A movi pro is useless without a readyrig or something like it.


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    #5
    Senior Member puredrifting's Avatar
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    Simple, do you have ACs, shoot things where you can rehearse and block?

    RED = crewed production - really boils down to traditional production. If you point your camera at things that are happening for your camera to capture, RED is great.
    C200 = OMB, documentary and event. If you point your camera at things that are happening in the real world with no consideration of camera, C200 is sooo much better.

    REDs completely are the wrong tool for OMB/documentary shooting (I tried it on my current doc and it was a frustrating experience), and the C200, while it can be dressed up with FF, matte box, etc. that is the natural domain of the RED.

    As far as the end result, Cinema RAW Light versus RED .R3D, not that different in the end, you can grade and color correct C200 footage to look just as good as RED IMHO. But it's the getting the shot thing where the difference lies.
    It's a business first and a creative outlet second.
    G.A.S. destroys lives. Stop buying gear that doesn't make you money.


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    #6
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    Nobody can answer without knowing what you're shooting.

    Personally I'd take an F5/55 and a Cabrio 19-90 over either of those options, because that suits my work and market much better.

    So, what are you intending to do with it?
    VIDEO PRODUCER ON THE NSW NORTH COAST, AUSTRALIA
    Sony FS700 || Shogun Inferno
    Adobe CC 2018


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    #7
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltoidjohn View Post
    Nobody can answer without knowing what you're shooting.

    Personally I'd take an F5/55 and a Cabrio 19-90 over either of those options, because that suits my work and market much better.

    So, what are you intending to do with it?
    Outside of "news", my main set-up is my F55 with Canon 17-120 sitting on it and a case of CN-E primes for the "pretty interviews". Although the 17-120 has shot many an interview...

    When we went from Betacam to HD, we thought we'd never have another "Betacam" again. Well, the F55/5 has turned out to be one of the most versatile cameras we've ever had in this industry to date, period.


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    #8
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    Of course we dont know what other bits you have.. like lighting and tripod.

    --

    Personally I would not dream of buying a C200 without buying some AF lenses.

    I would not own a gimbal without a remote focus, remote monitor and directors monitor

    I would always have a basic backup camera

    I would never go on a shoot without being able to offer wider than S35 24 - you should have a 16 as a 'standard wide' (CNEs fall down here being repurposed canon class)
    Even the Tonka 11-16

    Skimming your blog decent HFR is super worth it IMO.

    --

    Its a funny business - I shot GH5s last week and.. it makes me want a Zcam E2.. how bad is the GH5s file?

    There are so many options but I would certainly say if you are going to do something do it properly.. enough glass, enough batts, enough spare bits.

    Lutted remote monitor for director is the biggest factor on getting a rebooking!


    S


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    #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    Well, the F55/5 has turned out to be one of the most versatile cameras we've ever had in this industry to date, period.
    6 years on it's still the most requested cam in my market for anything above OMB gigs. I haven't been able to justify the purchase yet because on that level of job I'm usually AC, but I imagine anyone who bought one 6 years ago (that's ancient in modern camera terms!) has paid for it many times over.

    Tomster - you need to ask yourself which will be most profitable as a business purchase. Will the work you're currently doing benefit from the Gemini over a C200? Will your current clients pay you a higher rate just because you bought a "better" camera? Do you have guaranteed new income sources that can be accessed by owning the Gemini? Or is it just prospective purchasing (ie maybe if I have a better camera I'll get better clients)?
    VIDEO PRODUCER ON THE NSW NORTH COAST, AUSTRALIA
    Sony FS700 || Shogun Inferno
    Adobe CC 2018


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    #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltoidjohn View Post
    Nobody can answer without knowing what you're shooting.

    Personally I'd take an F5/55 and a Cabrio 19-90 over either of those options, because that suits my work and market much better.

    So, what are you intending to do with it?
    Thanks guys. Good points.

    I should have said that I already own a Sony FS7 which im super happy with for all corporate and documentary style work I do. I want this 2nd camera to be something that can help me grow as a visual filmmaker which I can use on commercials and the feature film project that I am shooting in the next 18months.

    I'm starting to think after tests that the image from the C200 isn't a big enough jump from my FS7. The Gemini however is in another league and I didn't expect the IQ to be so much better than the C200. I expected better but not as much as it is. I think its down to better colour separation, micro contrast, amount of colours and the accuracy of the them. Its funny because I had a Scarlet W for a very short time a year ago and really wasn't that blown away by it. The Gemini as well as the Canon C200 seemed to throw out a very pleasing image without much work.

    I formed a pro list for each camera in order of importance;

    C200

    1.Price
    2.ND Filters built in
    3.More physical buttons on body
    4.Auto Focus
    5. Smaller batteries that last longer and are allowed on aeroplanes.
    6.Waveforms!!
    7.EVF & Monitor comes with it.

    Gemini

    1. Image Quality
    2. Slow Motion
    3. Bigger sensor to make more use out of my full frame glass
    4. Raw workflow build into FCPX and seems to work better.
    5. Lowlight performance
    6. Integration with Movi Pro
    7. More rental potential
    8. Smaller file sizes
    9. Can use x2 anamorphic lenses


    The reasons for the Shogun monitor is to first of all save money on Red screen and EVF 6k! As the screen can been seen in bright sunshine and i prefer using menus with buttons on side handle than on touch screen. Because I already own the Shogun it was the only way of getting close to affording the Gemini, Movi and cine lenses. I will test how that setup works before making a decision though.

    FYI my equipment list is at the bottom of this page so you can see what I already have. http://tomjkelly.com/freelance-cinematographer/

    Best

    Tom
    Last edited by tomster; 11-17-2018 at 06:21 AM.


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