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    looking for $300 mic and $200ish recorder to have good audio straight into my dslr?
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    Senior Member PegLeg Media's Avatar
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    I am doing a ton of quick video blogs at work and need an easy/quick setup that still sounds somewhat professional. So i have 2 things i want to add, a new microphone and an audio recorder so i can run two channels at once, but into my sony a7iii, not recorded external with xlr.

    1. MICROPHONE
    I know Rode is known for the best on camera mics so thought about the new rode videomic Pro Plus. I have used the video mic pro and it isnt near the quality of my friends sennheiser mke-600 which is about the same price. I am curious if i should just go with rode for ease of use or try the sennheiser which i have had a lot of luck with recently (even going straight into the 3.5mm jack in the camera. Another mic suggestion would be helpful.

    2. AUDIO RECORDER
    I have the zoom h4n but want to be able to plug in 2 or maybe even more microphones that are 3.5mm jacks, not xlr. I had this little saramonic/beachtek adapter that had 2 separately controlled inputs and it went straight into my camera... worked but the build quality is bad and it broke after a few uses. So i would love something like this but higher quality and maybe more channels.


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    Moderator Alex H.'s Avatar
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    I’m curious. If you want to go through the trouble of buying an audio recorder, why are you wanting to avoid recording outside the camera? Also, if you’re using any kind of external interface, why are you wanting to avoid XLR connection from the mics?
    Nobody notices audio... until it's not there.

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    Senior Member PegLeg Media's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex H. View Post
    I’m curious. If you want to go through the trouble of buying an audio recorder, why are you wanting to avoid recording outside the camera? Also, if you’re using any kind of external interface, why are you wanting to avoid XLR connection from the mics?
    I wont always record to the camera and avoid xlr. For important projects i will still do that and already have gear for that.

    i just have to do 10-20 video blogs a week with a few hour turn around time on top of my normal work load and want this to be quick. I did some BTS video using the senn mk-600 straight into the sony a7iii and it sounded better than my rode ntg-2 into my zoom h4n so figured it would be a good setup to have just left up in my studio. The reason i want the recorder is in case i have 2-3 people on camera and want to mix a boom and/or 2 cheap lavaliers. All my lav mics are 3.5mm as well so just think it would be easier and cheaper than
    buying nice lavs and syncing audio in post.


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    A few things:

    Compared to your visual equipment budget, your stated desire to get GOOD audio for $500 is pretty anemic. Just sayin....

    Rode making the best on camera mics is wrong headed thinking since no on-camera mic will sound great except compared to other on-camera mics, which won't be very good due to the distance from the source.

    You may think that avoiding XLR connections and going 1/8 connectors will make your life easier. It might, but the chances of compromised audio will be greatly increased and mixing this together in a recorder and sending it along with 1/8 plugs is a pretty sketchy way of doing it.

    Self powered mics with 1/8" connections are usually not very high quality. Audio for dslr is usually a dual system affair with synching as part of the process. If you used a regular video cam with phantom power on two channels, this would get a lot easier for you. Any chance you can rent for this project? I don't like renting, but for a specific purpose-job, it maybe a better workflow. I often use a mixer in front of the camera to further improve both the pre-amps, limiters, controls, metering, and more. $200 recorders are not going to offer you pro level mixing function.

    Like many, I often work alone and need to deal with audio without assistance. For interviews, I use stand mounted boom mics or lavs; either wired (better) or wireless. But in either case, I record to a standard video cam or into a mixer-recorder. As a last resort, I use small recorders like the Tascam 10x series or other plant a recorder somewhere. Synching doesn't take long if you have a reference track on your dslr, but I hear you: this will be a PITA if you don't edit and need to hand-off a bunch of files immediately. Like I said, you could fix this real easy with a different cam rather than fighting an unsuitable workflow to get your results.

    There are a few other battery powered mics that use XLR connections such as the AT-897 and could be converted to 1/8" connection. I'm not sure this would sound any better than a Mk600. If you have phantom power, the AT875 is terrific for under $175. If this shoot is going to happen indoors, then any shotgun mic may be less than optimal depending on the room.

    Regards,
    Grant


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    I think you need to rethink some things. First two lavs and a boom is three channels and you are not going to get three on the DSLR.
    Someone else asked about multiple 1/8" inputs on a mixer or recorder and well as far as anyone could find such a beast doesn't exist.

    The other issue is that most 1/8" mics for DSLR etc. are dual mono, ie they send the same signal to both channels. Better lavs with 1/8" connectors for say the SEnnheiser wireless systems don't.

    Part of the reason you don't find 1/8" connectors generally on semi pro gear is that they are weak and are easily accidentally unplugged. On consumer gear they are often soldered directly on the board so any impact on the connection translates to damage on the electronics. When you do see them on better gear it's usually for secondary functions like an alt headphone jack or camera return.

    So...

    If you did find what you are looking for it would probably be some consumer low end gear. Assuming this Vlog can live with less that "high end" audio then I would get an onboard something like the Rode (I personally haven't noticed a lot of difference from the pricier Rode's to the cheapie Trakstar's but YMMV, and maybe a stereo variable with mic like the "Sony ECM-959A". But an on camera mic is an on camera mic and it's always going to be pretty "R&G crossbred with a home movie" in terms of sound quality.

    The big problem that has not been talked about is that with out an external mixer or recorder you have no way of monitoring and even then you are monitoring before the recorder (unless you use an external recorder) which is a bit like shooting with out looking at the monitor.
    Cheers
    SK


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
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    Moderator Alex H.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noiz2 View Post
    The big problem that has not been talked about is that with out an external mixer or recorder you have no way of monitoring and even then you are monitoring before the recorder (unless you use an external recorder) which is a bit like shooting with out looking at the monitor.
    The A7 III does have a headphone jack. Of course, in-camera audio with DSLR and mirrorless is still a bit lackluster.

    Quote Originally Posted by PegLeg Media View Post
    i just have to do 10-20 video blogs a week with a few hour turn around time on top of my normal work load... All my lav mics are 3.5mm as well so just think it would be easier and cheaper than
    buying nice lavs and syncing audio in post.
    I agree with Scott: you need to rethink some things. There’s a much simpler solution here that will utilize what you already have, get you the end result you think you want, and minimize how much you need to spend to make it happen.

    You have the potential to need more than two inputs at a time, so consider the Tascam DR-70D. That will also provide both ISO track and mix recording as a failsafe, better monitoring, and a mix to the camera via the 1/8” out made just for sending mic-level signal to DSLR/camcorder.

    I assume you have a decent shotgun and/or hypercardioid for your regular work? So, that just brings us to the lavs, which you say are all 1/8” (3.5mm). With an inexpensive adapter like THIS, you can turn them all into XLR connections for your F4 (and convert phantom power to plug-in power). They also work with on-cam mics like the RōDE VideoMic Pro.
    Nobody notices audio... until it's not there.

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    #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex H. View Post
    You have an F4. You have the potential to need more than two inputs at a time, and the F4 will provide that. The F4 will also provide both ISO track and mix recording as a failsafe, better monitoring, and a mix to the camera via the 1/8” sub out.
    He said he has an H4N, not an F4.


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    Quote Originally Posted by iain.bason View Post
    He said he has an H4N, not an F4.
    Correct you are. I’ll blame that lack of comprehension on all the dust in the house from ripping up carpet to have hard floors laid in...

    Post above corrected. Thanks for catching that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex H. View Post
    The A7 III does have a headphone jack.
    Are you sure? when I looked at the specs at B&H they only listed one jack and it was a mic in.

    If it has a headphone out that isn't also the mic in then my point is moot on the monitoring.
    Cheers
    SK


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    Senior Member paulears's Avatar
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    Isn't this like asking which cheap lens you can use on your expensive camera because you do lots of shooting and using a good lens is a faff?

    I HATE the sound of the Rode on camera mics. They're not bad, but sound exactly like what they are - a step up from the built in mic. Most mics have the sort of performance that lets you see them used for a huge range of scenarios. Nobody ever uses a Rode successfully for anything other than on camera video. They're cheap, and if they were good, audio recordists would use them on everything - they don't! My experiments with cameras that use 3.5mm sockets is that their audio system is pretty compromised too - nasty sounding autogains and limiters, poor control of gain etc etc. If they fit XLRs, they know they also have to fit decent audio. If it's 3.5mm unbalanced - then sound isn't important.
    Last edited by paulears; 11-20-2018 at 01:58 AM.


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