Thread: Raw question

Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. Collapse Details
    Raw question
    #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    119
    Default
    Hi, I am scoping out an infrared shoot and I'm considering the merits of the Varicam LT vs Red. I've shot tonnes of Red, and would most likely shoot either Epic Dragon or Helium depending on the budget. That being said, I've been looking for a reason to test the Varicam and with its IR mode coming as standard (opposed to an after market IR OLPF) it might fit the bill. From a user perspective everyone seems to love the camera, but it still seems to lack market traction. But as most of my money is made from commercial doc style shoots, it seems it could be a good match.

    My question relates to raw recording, for the most post flexibility for IR image manipulation in post. Reading the Convergent Design site it appears that the raw mode from the LT is Cinema DNG. How do people find this? I've had a Blackmagic Pocket cam for years, and though I liked the quality of raw the CDNG was never ideal compared to R3D. How do people find the raw footage coming out of the LT?

    Side note, how's the 240fps in 2K? And windowed, is the sensor around 16/S16? Outside of some big shows/movies looking great on the camera, it is harder to find vimeo/online examples (compared to the billions of Red shot videos online).

    Thanks for your time!


    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
    #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    368
    Default
    The IR filter has to be changed and it isn't as simple as it is on the EVA1.

    The Cinema DNG works fine but takes up a lot of disk storage. The image quality is great. I wish there was a recorder that could be placed between the camera and the battery, that would've been ideal.

    The 240 fps in 2K looks really good, if shot in raw. It's usable but not very good when recorded internally. I guess that the windowed mode is a quarter of the regular sensor size.


    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
    #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6,243
    Default
    The 2K window is Super-16 sized, so yes, you can use Super-16 glass. The quality of crop recording in RAW is better than internal because of compression. In fact, short of a dedicated high speed camera such as a Phantom the VariCam LT RAW 240fps is the highest quality available on any camera, including the REDs.

    CinemaDNG is uncompressed, which means a LOT of data. So you should be prepared for that. You can compress in post using programs such as SlimRAW, or you can migrate to other formats such as ProRes. You can also consider using an Atomos Shogun Inferno so that you can record in ProRes RAW, which is about a 3:1 or 4:1 compression.

    Swapping the IR filter in the VariCam LT means physically pulling it out through the lens mount and replacing it with a clear glass in order to maintain proper depth. The procedure is quite simple using a small screwdriver and tweezers, and it should only take a few minutes.
    Mitch Gross
    Cinema Product Manager
    Panasonic System Solutions Company


    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
    #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    119
    Default
    Thanks Milan and Mitch. I had assumed the process to remove the IR filter was similar to an OLPF on a Red camera so that's all good.

    Very interesting regarding the slow mo thanks Mitch. Having shot both Phantom and heavily windowed Red cameras I'd be curious to see the LT 240fps in raw. There aren't many examples out there, but this looks pretty spectacular https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSbJturul0s

    Is the Prores Raw recording from the LT reasonably visually lossless compared to uncompressed CDNG? It is a shame the Prores raw roll out to applications outside of FCP X has been pretty lacklustre.


    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
    #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    368
    Default
    I have only tested shooting in 240 fps in raw, and the difference is huge compared to recording internally.

    I haven't used Prores raw, but for the LT to output 240 fps in raw, it needs to use both SDI outputs which in turn requires a recorder with two SDI inputs. As far as I know the Atomos recorders only use one input and the O7Q(+) can't record in Prores raw.


    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
    #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    119
    Default
    It appears the Sjogun also has dual SDI input. Here is the Panasonic chart:

    https://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/vari...kflow_raw.html

    Do you have any examples you can share of the 240 FPS recorded raw on the 7Q?

    Thanks


    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
    #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Holllywood, California
    Posts
    100
    Default
    Sean Davis shot this in Raw at 240fps
    https://vimeo.com/226619454


    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
    #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6,243
    Default
    The Atomos Shogun Inferno and Sumo 19 both can record Dual-Link SDI from the VariCam LT. This allows ProRes RAW recording up to 240fps. In CinemaDNG the maximum recording is 4K30p/2K120p, due to the recorders only using a single SSD to capture material. This limitation is the saturation speed of the SSD's SATA interface, not of the devices ability to accept info from the camera.

    The ProRes RAW codecs (ProRes RAW and ProRes RAW HQ) are roughly a 4:1 and 3:1 compression, structured in a similar way to the video form of ProRes. They are very efficient codecs, and I would doubt you would see much loss. The real limitation you might face is the control interface of Final Cut Pro X, which may not be to your liking compared to a program such as Resolve.
    Mitch Gross
    Cinema Product Manager
    Panasonic System Solutions Company


    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
    #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Holllywood, California
    Posts
    100
    Default
    Here in lies my problem. The O7Q gives little more versatility in recording options and DNGs that will play in resolve, and maybe a better display and build quality. But the Shogun and Sumo have better interface, some HDR display, but ProRes Raw that doesn't play with Resolve. And might not, given that BMD has their own raw.

    Hopefully Panasonic will just develop V-RawLite and save us a lot of misery.

    I have only used the Sumo on a music video w/ a Red Dragon. I really liked the unit's display and interface. To bad it won't record the higher framerates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Gross View Post
    The Atomos Shogun Inferno and Sumo 19 both can record Dual-Link SDI from the VariCam LT. This allows ProRes RAW recording up to 240fps. In CinemaDNG the maximum recording is 4K30p/2K120p, due to the recorders only using a single SSD to capture material. This limitation is the saturation speed of the SSD's SATA interface, not of the devices ability to accept info from the camera.

    The ProRes RAW codecs (ProRes RAW and ProRes RAW HQ) are roughly a 4:1 and 3:1 compression, structured in a similar way to the video form of ProRes. They are very efficient codecs, and I would doubt you would see much loss. The real limitation you might face is the control interface of Final Cut Pro X, which may not be to your liking compared to a program such as Resolve.


    Reply With Quote
     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •