Thread: Image Flip

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 17 of 17
  1. Collapse Details
    #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    181
    Default
    Hi Mitch,
    You're right about the recorder output not flopping,,, I just tested my old nanoflash, and after setting it to record flopped, the output remained with normal orientation. (It did properly record and play back the flop though...).
    I also checked the flop on my 7" smallHD, and the looped output is not flopped when the displayed image is.
    I'm not aware of large monitors that will flop, though there may be some.

    Jason -
    Is this a live stream?


    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
    #12
    Senior Member Spotlight Media's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Posts
    299
    Default
    Hey Guys,
    First off, thanks for all the responses. Let me clear up a few things and give a bit more detail:
    #1. This is for a university and the presenter will be a number of different professors, most of them never being in front of a camera. Therefore it has to be simple for them.
    #2. The Professor writes on the board in a normal fashion on his side of the glass, the other side of the glass shows his writing backward (ambulance in rear view mirror effect). The only trick they may want to employ is to write right to left so when the image is reversed it is left to right.
    #3. This is NOT a live feed (yet)
    #4. The only reason we want a LIVE reverse image is for a confidence monitor when there are overlays on the screen.
    #5. At some point the background may be removed, so I have to figure in a possibility of green screen.

    This may help a bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCOuu0-o5YI

    The way I see it my biggest problem is the confidence monitor. Maybe there are monitors that allow one to flip the image.
    Jason Kubicki
    The Signal Co


    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
    #13
    Senior Member Spotlight Media's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Posts
    299
    Default
    Seanlik,
    That is a great idea if we had 1 or 2 people that could be trained. But with a variety of different professors that would be too much for them to handle. This has to be a quick process.
    Jason Kubicki
    The Signal Co


    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
    #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    181
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotlight Media View Post
    This may help a bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCOuu0-o5YI

    The way I see it my biggest problem is the confidence monitor. Maybe there are monitors that allow one to flip the image.
    As you see in that YouTube clip explanation, he has the camera shooting into a mirror, which makes the image look correctly oriented.
    If shooting into a mirror, my suggestion would be to create a small lens-mounted (or more likely mounted on support rails) rig with a good, small front-surface mirror.

    As I mentioned previously, if a 7" monitor is big enough for presenter confidence, many or the portable camera monitors that size allow the image to be flipped or flopped. I have one from SmallHD and another from Aputure, both of which allow flopping the image. Many brands provide this feature.

    There is one other thing to think about with a confidence monitor -- the fact that monitors are bright - and that you will need to position it carefully (away from the camera axis) to avoid seeing the reflection of the monitor in the glass. This may take some work unless it's fine for the presenter to change eyeline to look at the monitor.

    Mu first suggestion would be to test using a pola filter. This has nothing to do with a reflected polarization from the glass - that will not be effective here since you are shooting at 90 degrees to the glass barely polarizes any reflections, and shooting with the glass at a 57 degree angle for maximum pola effect would make the setup look wrong. However, many LCD monitors are effectively polarized to begin with, so a pola filter might be able to eliminate almost all the light from it. This is something to test early!
    If this is not the case, you might be able to place a polarizing filter sheet in front of the monitor to polarize the light one way, and use a rotating pola on the lens to counteract that.

    Also, if the monitor is placed partially off-axis, a computer monitor 'privacy screen' could be used to minimize its off-axis visibility. (Something I've often done to eliminate seeing prompter reflections in multi-cam prompter situations in night scenes with windows.)


    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
    #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6,134
    Default
    The easiest way to do this is the way described in the second link you sent. Point the camera at a mirror to then see the Lightboard and person behind it. Then the image is correct in the camera for recording and all that is needed is regular monitors for the professors. You will find that a confidence monitor for the professors will be a mixed bag. First off, nonprofessional talent will find this distracting. Second, the image will be flopped so instead of appearing as it would in a mirror one's left hand will appear on the right side of the screen and so forth, which is not normal for most people to see and make movements and motor skills awkward at best. My suggestion is to avoid this completely. If anything the talent need only look at the Lightboard itself to know what is on the screen.
    Mitch Gross
    Cinema Product Manager
    Panasonic Media Entertainment Corporation


    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
    #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    64
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Gross View Post
    Second, the image will be flopped so instead of appearing as it would in a mirror one's left hand will appear on the right side of the screen and so forth, which is not normal for most people to see and make movements and motor skills awkward at best. My suggestion is to avoid this completely. If anything the talent need only look at the Lightboard itself to know what is on the screen.
    ...actually, the opposite is true (if shooting in the opposite direction at a mirror, which solves your problem). The image in the confidence monitor will appear to the talent EXACTLY as a mirror would. Think about it again (Go look in the mirror and write your name in the air with your finger... note that the text writes L to R as it should). To your argument, this articulation (mirror image) is actually much more natural for the untrained on-cam folk.

    The difficulty should be limited mostly to writing/annotating on the overlay (that isn't really there on the glass), and perhaps the talent shifting their eye focus from plexiglass to monitor and back again (you might get a few bobbing heads, lol).
    Last edited by Seanik; 06-14-2018 at 10:14 AM.


    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
    #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6,134
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Seanik View Post
    ...actually, the opposite is true (if shooting in the opposite direction at a mirror, which solves your problem). The image in the confidence monitor will appear to the talent EXACTLY as a mirror would. Think about it again (Go look in the mirror and write your name in the air with your finger... note that the text writes L to R as it should). To your argument, this articulation (mirror image) is actually much more natural for the untrained on-cam folk.

    The difficulty should be limited mostly to writing/annotating on the overlay (that isn't really there on the glass), and perhaps the talent shifting their eye focus from plexiglass to monitor and back again (you might get a few bobbing heads, lol).
    D'oh, yes you're correct. This feels like one of those things people overthink.

    So when a PowerPoint or other video image is overlaid, where does it happen with this system? That first reference video included a chart that the presenter annotated. Is this projected onto the glass, at which point it would be visible to the naked eye, or is it a post-layering, perhaps on a switcher? Because then that's more gear needed. I would still argue that for a layperson presenter it would be best to NOT have a monitor to look to, as this wil prove distracting. If the image is visible on the board then just look at the board. If it has to happen electronically then this is a live video effect beyond what was indicated in the OP, but then yes, it would need a monitor for position reference.
    Mitch Gross
    Cinema Product Manager
    Panasonic Media Entertainment Corporation


    Reply With Quote
     

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •