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    #11
    Sound Ninja Noiz2's Avatar
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    People are forever mistaking their particular needs for what others need. You kind of hit on that but also slid into "Zoom F4 and F8 are clearly aimed for the lower end of the professional film sound market: the Zoom website side makes that abundantly clear. Equally clear is that the SD Mixpre-series recorders are aimed at 'musicians, sound designers, podcasters, videographers, YouTubers and field recordists', with their more expensive recorders/mixers aimed at film sound professionals.". MixPre's (before they became recorders also, were extensively use by film professionals. Not so much by "production sound" people because they are not really mixers and are channel limited, but sound FX recordists and sound designers and post sound people more generally. The F series is in fact getting use on big budget hollywood films, by mostly the same group. Post production sound people are also "film sound professionals". Other things that got extensive use in big budget films were Sony Walkman DAT recorders, Denon compact DAT recorders and the Tascam DAP-1 DAT recorder. On mix stages all over DA-88's were quite common.

    So it really isn't a lot of use to start labeling things with who you think they are marketing to. It's much better to stick to actual attributes of the devices, and who is actually using them.

    I am a big fan of SD generally but I have never really liked their recorders. For me they are awkward, but that is me. I do use a first gen MixPre constantly. Originally I was worried about the build quality of the F series because I had had not so great experience with Zoom products in the past. But they have been in the field getting pounded for a couple of years now and they seem to be holing up just fine.

    If I were a production mixer on big budget films I would be going for SD or other film industry focused companies mostly because they understand the needs and problems and they are going to work at solving any issues I have in a production friendly way (ie they understand that I need it fixed yesterday and they will at least get me a loaner while something gets fixed). Zoom might do that also but it's not the tradition they come out of.

    The OP was using a handheld recorder so he is not doing production on big budget Hollywood features.

    The thing is my needs are not yours and neither of our needs are the OP's. Everything mentioned can get you really good quality recordings if you use them correctly. So it really comes down to workflow, personal preference, personal perception of quality differences, features, and form factor. And really no body but the OP knows how that shakes out for him.
    Cheers
    SK


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    #12
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    Hi Scott,

    I don't really think we are saying anything too radically different: my point was simply that SD has designed the Mixpre-series recorders for a different, though doubtless overlapping, market than its other recorders/mixers or the F4/F8, so I don't think the absence of certain features found in a 633 or F4/F8 is a flaw per se. Sure some will use them (esp. the 10T) for film production sound. Conversely I have come across F8s used for location music recording. And, personally, I'm extremely interested in the imminent Musician plug-in, which takes the Mixpre-3/6/10T recorder in another useful direction (for me) with overdubbing. And we are agreed that neither may suit the OP!

    Cheers,

    Roland


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    #13
    Senior Member min lee's Avatar
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    I had a zoom h1 that took a tumble and afterward cards would pop out of the slot. I took it apart and although I wasn't able to get the spring mechanism working correctly, I simply took out the spring altogether. It's been working fine for months now albeit you have to pry the card out with your finger nails or transfer files via usb. Perhaps the same can be done with the H6. Good luck.


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    #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throwback View Post
    I can understand, of course, why someone professionally recording film sound (as you do) would need the particular functionality of a Zoom F4/F8, although I must admit that if that was my particular need/main employment I would also consider other options such as an SD 633 etc.

    I suspect the OP's needs might be a bit different if currently using an H6, although I do agree an F4 would be a not too expensive step up assuming size, complexity etc. is not an issue.

    Cheers,

    Roland
    Indeed, the 633 is in my targets as something to consider on my short list to get in the near ish future. A Maxx is also a possibility.

    But what is holding me back is what I'd probably rather prefer is say a 688 or maybe even better the Sonosax SX-R4+. However all three are very rare indeed to show up on the secondhand market (which is how prefer to buy my equipment being the penny counter I am).

    Additionally I look at the overall age of the Sound Devices 6 series line up (especially say the 664) and I can't help but wonder if maybe there is going to be a new release in the near future? I'd much rather pre-order a new 664 mk2 than say buy a 633 only to see a new 6 series announced less than a year later. As whatever I'd be buying this is what I'd be committing to for a number of years into the future, not a decision to be taken lightly.

    The same could be said about Zaxcom and how long their Maxx/Nomad has been out. Now they've shipped the Deva 24, then surely this is next on the drawing board for them?

    The good news however out of this is that I am so very pleased with my Zoom F4 that I do not mind at all holding onto it for another year (or even two?!) as my main recorder while I wait for the market to reveal itself as to what is going to happen next.

    And on the topic of happening next... how about that new Zoom F8n??

    Potentially the new Zoom F8n in July will keep me within the Zoom fold for an extra year or two longer, and just maybe it might even be a better choice for me personally than say a 633 would be.

    I certainly have a lots of wishes and hopes for the F8n (fingers crossed!):

    http://ironfilm.co.nz/what-id-like-t...-new-zoom-f8n/

    Your name btw is interesting! "Roland", which leads me to ask, what happened to them? As Roland used to be a significant player in the market for professional recordists with more agressively priced products. Same with Tascam, but now they no longer look competitive at all next to the Zoom F series, as it has been so long since Tascam or Roland have updated their higher end offerings. So yeah, another reason I'm happy to hold tight with the F4 (or F8n) for another year, maybe they'll come back into the marketplace with a bang.

    Quote Originally Posted by min lee View Post
    I had a zoom h1 that took a tumble and afterward cards would pop out of the slot. I took it apart and although I wasn't able to get the spring mechanism working correctly, I simply took out the spring altogether. It's been working fine for months now albeit you have to pry the card out with your finger nails or transfer files via usb. Perhaps the same can be done with the H6. Good luck.
    The SD card spring mechanism and the battery compartment of my Sound Decives 552 has failed, I really need to take apart the 552 to see if I can fix this up myself.
    Last edited by IronFilm; 05-15-2018 at 10:19 PM.
    Am a Sound Recordist in New Zealand: http://ironfilm.co.nz/sound/
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    #15
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    Thats why I never took the card out from the zoom recorders, I always transfer via usb.
    I know the SD slot will break at some points :P


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    #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
    I am so very pleased with my Zoom F4 that I do not mind at all holding onto it for another year (or even two?!) as my main recorder while I wait for the market to reveal itself as to what is going to happen next.
    I'm glad the F4 suits you so well at present David: it represents fantastic value and I fully appreciate why a Mixpre-series recorder wouldn't suit your purposes. My simple point is that SD make several recorder/mixers that deliver all that functionality too, albeit at a (justifiably) higher price, and that their Mixpre-series recorders are something rather different: they are not simply flawed alternatives to the F4/F8 and, indeed, they suit many of us better than these two Zoom models for our diverse purposes.

    Cheers,

    Roland


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    #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
    Your name btw is interesting! "Roland", which leads me to ask, what happened to them?
    Ha! ha! Roland is my actual name, of course, not some nod to the corporation of the same name: it would be fun to have gear with my name plastered on it if they produced something that appealed to me though! The last thing I had from them was a TR-606...

    Cheers,

    Roland


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    #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    One option is to fix it yourself for $2.50. If you know how to use a screw driver and a soldering iron, you may be able to fix it yourself quite easily. You've got nothing to lose if you don't intend to get it repaired. Take it apart. Get the part number off the SD holder and go buy it from Digikey. Now it may be a part that uses soldering techniques that are not possible by hand, but nothing lost in trying.
    I'd second this. Can't find a video showing the repair, but here's one for an H2n as encouragement! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwVQTSeb1ck

    Cheers,

    Roland


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    #19
    Sound Ninja Noiz2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throwback View Post
    it would be fun to have gear with my name plastered on it if they produced something that appealed to me though! ...

    Cheers,

    Roland
    I had a friend who claimed ownership of all cameras because his name was Asa and is clearly printed on them all...
    Cheers
    SK


    Scott Koue
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    #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throwback View Post
    Hi Scott,

    I don't really think we are saying anything too radically different: ...
    Cheers,

    Roland
    I don't think we are that far off. My main point was people talk about the needs of "film sound" and what they are really talking about is production mixers. On a normal show you have two to three people doing the production recording and in the neighborhood of 15 - 30 people doing post production, and they are all "film sound" folks.

    That asside I think we both basically come down to, look at your needs, find equipment that matches those needs.
    Cheers
    SK


    Scott Koue
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