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    #11
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    What about HFR!? did they mention anything about that! is it something that come later with some fw update! if so, why no word about that? really impressive colors and skintone though


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    #12
    Senior Member starcentral's Avatar
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    There is an article that accompanies this shoot by DP Jeff Berlin.

    It was DP'd a short film on the Sony VENICE for the big C-LED screen at the Sony booth at NAB. Clips from the film ran on that screen in 8K HDR. This is a short article about his experience with the camera. Lenses were Servicevision Scorpio full frame anamorphics.

    https://alphauniverse.com/videos/ful...al-world-test/


    I also asked Jeff a bit more about the grading and how it was done. More specifically I asked if any secondary color correction was done but I was told there were not. It was graded using Sony's new Venice LUT and done at Technicolor. If you guys have any specific questions about the grading let me know and I'll send Jeff some questions.

    Also Vimeo tends to look a bit better then youTube
    https://vimeo.com/265485072
    Last edited by starcentral; 05-01-2018 at 05:34 AM.
    Dennis Hingsberg


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    #13
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    For a while, I felt youtube looked better than vimeo. Has that changed?


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    #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskacameradude View Post
    Coming out soon. FS7 MKiii. The same as FS7 MKii but
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    And a black ND Filter knob! Makes huge difference! Once you go Black you won’t go back to a silver knob ever again!
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    #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by James0b57 View Post
    For a while, I felt youtube looked better than vimeo. Has that changed?
    It flips back and forth. Testing with a 240Mbps network:

    Mobile: Vimeo (iPhone X): much better than YouTube
    1080p: Vimeo for some content appears to have the edge
    4K: YouTube appears to have a slight edge in image quality. Hard to tell as Vimeo won't buffer / play back 4K content smoothly. Appears to be a buffer algorithm design issue / bug. Content blasts in (progress bar shoots right fast), then stops and video plays a few seconds, then video completely stops, then content blasts in fast, starts playing again etc. Sometimes video stops and never starts again.


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    #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcs View Post
    It flips back and forth. Testing with a 240Mbps network:

    Mobile: Vimeo (iPhone X): much better than YouTube
    1080p: Vimeo for some content appears to have the edge
    4K: YouTube appears to have a slight edge in image quality. Hard to tell as Vimeo won't buffer / play back 4K content smoothly. Appears to be a buffer algorithm design issue / bug. Content blasts in (progress bar shoots right fast), then stops and video plays a few seconds, then video completely stops, then content blasts in fast, starts playing again etc. Sometimes video stops and never starts again.
    I felt when selecting 1080p on Youtube, not allowing it to run with "auto 1080", it was generally closer to the original footage than vimeo. But it has been a while since I did a real AB.

    As for the cellphone footage, I try not to use the vimeo app, since it is buggy and the search bar is hopeless.

    Also, not really the same issue, but slightly on topic, I found that when exporting from premiere using the default Vimeo vs. Youtube presets, that the Youtube ones produced better results as well.

    Vimeo just has always had a cleaner and more presentable interface, so despite some of the issues along the way, like the days when you could skip ahead on the timeline, it has remained a great tool for displaying work.

    There is probably a thread about this somewhere we should revive.


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    #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcs View Post
    4K: YouTube appears to have a slight edge in image quality. Hard to tell as Vimeo won't buffer / play back 4K content smoothly. Appears to be a buffer algorithm design issue / bug. Content blasts in (progress bar shoots right fast), then stops and video plays a few seconds, then video completely stops, then content blasts in fast, starts playing again etc. Sometimes video stops and never starts again.
    You have to wait until the entire video buffers because it's impossible to get through anything in 4K as the playback always catches up with the buffer.

    What I do is choose 4K before a video has started and then press play and then pause it immediately, and come back 10 minutes later and it's mostly done and will play in 4K. It's definitely a design quirk or bug and sometimes when the playback catches up to the buffer the quality may drop down to 1080p. I usually double check by clicking 'd' on the video for its specs.


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    #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by James0b57 View Post

    As for the cellphone footage, I try not to use the vimeo app, since it is buggy and the search bar is hopeless.
    When I want the best possible quality with 1080p material, I upscale to 4K, sharpen, then render as high bitrate MP4 or MXF. Then while playing back in 4K (YouTube), it looks very close to the original 1080p viewed locally. Vimeo's buffering system is broken- as a developer I can't believe they've left it in that state for so long, so I don't bother with Vimeo anymore (even had Vimeo Pro when selling videos online).

    NorBro- in my office I've got a 240Mbps connection- no need to wait for anything. In fact you can see a burst of progress, then it just hangs. Clearly a bug. Sometimes it never recovers. Vimeo doesn't have google's deep pockets, thus it appears they don't have a big budget for CDNs, and thus they are being miserly with bandwidth. That said, I'd be cool to wait a bit if it would buffer completely and then just hit play when done. Unfortunately, it just hangs and never fully buffers. The bug might be related to having a fast connection and their timer code doesn't properly handle that case. I've written a lot of real-time network code, and it can be tricky. However Vimeo's had this bug for a long time. When I worked for MySpace, this kind of bug would require working weekends / overnight until it was fixed (we used Akamai for the CDN- sometimes they would also have to make changes to fix issues).

    Today a video almost played OK, hiccuped a few times, dropped frames. YouTube is smooth, no issues (looks like Vimeo is using Akamai and MPEG-Dash (for variable bitate streaming)- bug could be in Dash or how they are using it when selecting a fixed 4K stream):

    Delivery:dash, cdn: akfire_interconnect_quic
    Playing:3840×2160@24 20,680 Kbps
    Embed size:960×540 @1.25x
    Separate AV:true
    Dropped frames:25 / 4563 - 0.55%
    Bandwidth:109,499 Kbps
    (5,949 Kbps204,629 Kbps)

    It looks like just increasing the buffer size by about 10-15% would fix this bug. If I hit pause, everything stops (no buffering). They're saving bandwidth to save costs.


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    #19
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    Hmm, not sure...every video I've ever played and paused always buffered to the end.

    If I just hit play, I get those bursts like you (though probably not as fast) and the video does eventually stop and hang.

    If I play/pause, it always works. But it's definitely been a problem since day 1 with 4K. (1080p was never an issue for me.)


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    #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by starcentral View Post
    There is an article that accompanies this shoot by DP Jeff Berlin.

    It was DP'd a short film on the Sony VENICE for the big C-LED screen at the Sony booth at NAB. Clips from the film ran on that screen in 8K HDR. This is a short article about his experience with the camera. Lenses were Servicevision Scorpio full frame anamorphics.

    https://alphauniverse.com/videos/ful...al-world-test/


    I also asked Jeff a bit more about the grading and how it was done. More specifically I asked if any secondary color correction was done but I was told there were not. It was graded using Sony's new Venice LUT and done at Technicolor. If you guys have any specific questions about the grading let me know and I'll send Jeff some questions.
    Hey Dennis- thanks for the info, had not heard about the Servicevision Scorpio anamorphic FF lens before, awesome look and detail! It would be cool to find out what was necessary for skin tone grading- any global WB tweaks needed or something more complex. For example, I played with ARRIRAW footage (Alexa 65 & LF) in Resolve, and just doing a basic gamma curve and minor tweaks to global WB and got good looking skin tones.

    NorBro- no issues with Vimeo 1080p here either, and again, on mobile Vimeo looks much better than YouTube.


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