Thread: Atomos Ninja V

Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 2345678 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 78
  1. Collapse Details
    #51
    Senior Member Thomas Smet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,372
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by marvinhello View Post
    Looks like Ninja V is having the same issues with HDMI signal level:

    https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic...h-input-gamma/
    This has been an issue ever since we have had monitors and external recorders and Atomos absolutely refuses to do anything about it. I have emailed them, called them, others have begged on forums and Atomos doesn't believe its an issue so they will not do anything with it. We have been asking since the Ninja 2 and the response is always dancing around the issue and never really answering why they will not address it.

    Thank goodness Panasonic has enough brains to allow users to select if they want 16-235 or 0-255 for the HDMI output but alas it doesn't work when shooting v-log and the camera is forced to use 0-255 which makes external recording not correct.

    I honestly don't know how/why so many in the industry ignore this. Almost every review of external recorders I have ever watched on YouTube incorrectly thinks the recorder or ProRes just create darker video. The utter lack of understanding of this issue and the rabid spread of misinformation out there is enough to make me curl up into a fetal position in the corner of a dark room and cry myself to sleep.

    Yes there are solutions in post and I have created my own lut and FCPX effect to deal with this but that still doesn't help how the image looks on the monitor while shooting. I know this because again thanks to Panasonic I can switch my camera back and forth between 16-235 and 0-255 and see how crushed the video looks on the monitor when using 0-255. This can lead to exposing the image incorrectly and attempting to over compensate for the added contrast and crushed dynamic range. While its a life saver to have solutions in post in 2018 we shouldn't have to deal with this issue anymore. Since the vast majority of external recorder users out there likely use a camera stuck at 0-255 Atomos needs to get their act together and add in a feature to correct the signal on input to the device.


    4 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
    #52
    Senior Member Cary Knoop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Newark CA, USA
    Posts
    1,256
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Smet View Post
    Thank goodness Panasonic has enough brains to allow users to select if they want 16-235 or 0-255 for the HDMI output but alas it doesn't work when shooting v-log and the camera is forced to use 0-255 which makes external recording not correct.
    Never had a problem using the Atomos with V-Log.
    The Atomos is doing nothing wrong, it takes the full range V-Log input and converts it to video range ProRes or DNxHx. Import the file using video range and you should be fine. Using full range for Rec.709 is just asking for problems, I would suggest to always use video range for Rec.709.

    To test the Atomos V-Log workflow you can verify with the scopes by recording a clip with the lens cap on for a few seconds and shining light into the lens to obtain full sensor saturation. The levels in your NLE should confirm the V-Log range specifications.
    Last edited by Cary Knoop; 10-11-2018 at 10:29 AM.


    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
    #53
    Default
    I haven't been paying attention to this much, but with the announcement of the add on modules shipping I went and looked at the Ninja V again. It looks like they've scrubbed any reference to raw recording off their site for the V. If you look up ProRes Raw on their site, it says it's only available on the Sumo and Inferno.

    No mention of a forthcoming SDI module either that I saw. So either this means they are tired of questions and don't even want to talk about it until the SDI module is ready, or they're abandoning the idea of ProRes Raw on the Ninja V.

    Have they said what their plans are?


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
    #54
    Senior Member Thomas Smet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,372
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Cary Knoop View Post
    Never had a problem using the Atomos with V-Log.
    The Atomos is doing nothing wrong, it takes the full range V-Log input and converts it to video range ProRes or DNxHx. Import the file using video range and you should be fine. Using full range for Rec.709 is just asking for problems, always use video range for Rec.709.

    You can verify with the scopes by recording a clip with the lens cap on for a few seconds and shining light into the lens to obtain full sensor saturation. The levels in your NLE should confirm the V-Log range specifications.
    Yes I know exactly what’s going on. Like I said earlier it’s a problem for monitoring live during a shoot because the range is displayed incorrectly. It’s also an extra step in post that 99% of users are not even aware of is an issue. Atomos could at least be responsible enough and document what is going on and offer solutions.

    I built my own lut and a FCPX effect to deal with this easily. My Ninja Blade can’t load luts so I’m stuck with an incorrect display of the v-log.

    The issue is also that not every NLE or application allows the user to change if data or video levels is used. This is a great feature in Resolve but no other application has this ability. We can’t assume every user uses Resolve and has an easy fix for this and Atomos definitely shouldn’t assume that.


    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
    #55
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    131
    Default
    Atomos most likely wont do SDI on the Ninja V. They will have another similar device that only have SDI and pricier.


    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
    #56
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Ottawa , Canada
    Posts
    616
    Default
    I think we may see an SDI interface though it may cost a lot. Their whole pitch is to only buy what you need. Will pick mine up tomorrow. Don't need SDI as none of my cameras has that interface.


    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
    #57
    Senior Member marvinhello's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    GTA, Canada
    Posts
    713
    Default
    Now another issue with Ninja V (bright areas turn black in recording)

    https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic...comment=258023


    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
    #58
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Berlin
    Posts
    1,393
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry_Green View Post
    No mention of a forthcoming SDI module either that I saw. So either this means they are tired of questions and don't even want to talk about it until the SDI module is ready, or they're abandoning the idea of ProRes Raw on the Ninja V.

    Have they said what their plans are?
    Think Jeromy said during IBC that they are working on an SDI module (but brushing it over by saying they want to bring all sorts of adapters out). When they announced the Ninja V he was very vocal about wanting the camera manufacturers to send raw over hdmi... would be interesting to see who (if any) is first to do that. I’m hoping Sony will do it with the A7SIII to steal back the momentum now that everyone else are releasing FF mirrorless cameras. But I doubt it’ll happen. But a mirrorless outputting a raw signal to the Ninja V would be such a killer combo...
    Sony NEX-FS700R | A7S | Odyssey 7Q+ | Atomos Ninja V
    Sony 24-70/2.8 GM, 70-200/2.8GM, SEL 50/1.8, 35/1.8, 18-105/4, FE 28-70 | Samyang 16, 35 & 85mm Cine
    Sachtler Flowtech 75 | Benro S8
    MacBook Pro 2018 6-core i7 2.6 ghz / 32gb ram / 512gb HD | macOS Mojave
    Hackintosh i7-8700K 6-core 3.7 ghz / 32 gb ram / 512gb NVMe / Radeon RX 580 | macOS Mojave


    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
    #59
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by dmitrizigany View Post
    When they announced the Ninja V he was very vocal about wanting the camera manufacturers to send raw over hdmi... would be interesting to see who (if any) is first to do that..
    No camera manufacturer will implement raw over HDMI. It is impossible for them to do so and stay compliant with the HDMI specifications.

    If anything, we will probably see something like a DisplayPort type of situation. Some manufacturer like Sony might invent a new port, which can transport raw, and which is backwards compatible with HDMI. For example, I have a laptop that has a combo USB2.0 and eSATA port. I can plug either type of device into that port. So maybe they will come up with a port that supports HDMI but also, when using a different cable with a slightly different connector, could now support SDMII (Sony Digital Media Interface, as an example). That port might be able to support raw, and Atomos could perhaps make a simple adapter for their nonstandard HDMI port to accept raw over this hypothetical SDMI.

    Without some sort of different port/cable, you will not see raw over HDMI. Unless the HDMI organization issues a new standard like HDMI 4.0 or something.


    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
    #60
    Senior Member marvinhello's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    GTA, Canada
    Posts
    713
    Default
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry_Green View Post
    No camera manufacturer will implement raw over HDMI. It is impossible for them to do so and stay compliant with the HDMI specifications.

    If anything, we will probably see something like a DisplayPort type of situation. Some manufacturer like Sony might invent a new port, which can transport raw, and which is backwards compatible with HDMI. For example, I have a laptop that has a combo USB2.0 and eSATA port. I can plug either type of device into that port. So maybe they will come up with a port that supports HDMI but also, when using a different cable with a slightly different connector, could now support SDMII (Sony Digital Media Interface, as an example). That port might be able to support raw, and Atomos could perhaps make a simple adapter for their nonstandard HDMI port to accept raw over this hypothetical SDMI.

    Without some sort of different port/cable, you will not see raw over HDMI. Unless the HDMI organization issues a new standard like HDMI 4.0 or something.
    A7S III will be able to transmit RAW (X-OCN) signal through proprietary interface units.


    Reply With Quote
     

Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 2345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •